82 1100G sidestand switch

[salty_monk]

I confirmed operation on the switch, it goes full circuit when pushed in and open circuit when let go however the side stand switch light only goes a bit dim it doesn’t switch off.

Could I have got something crossed up in the headlight bucket or is it perhaps going to ground elsewhere or something?

[salty_monk]

On the wiring diagram the only other thing it seems to be connected to is the oil light....

GS1100G_1982_wiring by salty_monk, on Flickr

Mine has a Diode in it... which I see on the wiring diagram & appears to be there to stop the sidestand light feeding back into the neutral / oil lights. I wonder if it's shot and "leaky" or maybe fitted the wrong way around (should be impossible if stock which it looks to be...)

[IMG]diode by salty_monk, on Flickr

[salty_monk]

One other thing that crossed my mind... engine is not running so the oil pressure light is on, does that make a difference I wonder?

[Redman]

One other thing that crossed my mind... engine is not running so the oil pressure light is on, does that make a difference I wonder?

Dan,

yes, diode is so the oil pressure switch lights up both the oil
light and the sidestand light, but the sidestand switch lights only the sidestand light.
so, yes, oil pressure switch can effect the sidestand light.

I’ll let you ponder that before saying more . Need to understand the above before discuss more.

[Redman]

If understand the above statement, then will realize that if engine off (low oil pressure) then, yes, that effects the sidestand light operation (but it should be on fully).


Is many ways to explain the function/ purpose of that diode.

On general, to describe a diode: it lets current flow one way, but not the other. Is the plumbing equivalent of a check valve.

if disconnect the diode from that circuit , then the oil switch should operate the oil light only, and the sidestand switch operate the sidestand light only. So do that and test things out to check function of oil switch and light and the sidestand swi h and light.

[Redman]

After understanding all the above, then is another related discussion to have.

and that is the oil switch is normally closed (connected, continuity, conducting, zero resistance) when no/low oil pressure. And opens (disconnects, no continuity, infinite resistance) when is oil pressure. And so when is no oil pressure it essentially connects the wire to ground.
another way to say it: the switch turns on the light by coonecting the wire to ground. So if you want to test the light and the circuit you would ground out the wire ( not put power to the wire).

and can say about same for the sidestand switch, with only exception being it has two wires, one being. Ground wire.

[Redman]

And.... after getting the sidestand circuit to function:
is a good idea (a-hem) to look at that light before taking off.

[salty_monk]

Dave you're the reason I'm bothering to fix it...

So my rocket scientist (EE) friend just took a look at it & said... if they were clever they'd have used that to kill the engine in a sidestand down or low oil pressure situation. It would be possible with a bit of jiggery pokery (I think you'd have tie in the kill switch wire somehow).

Anyway... having a brain wave I figured I could test it by pulling the oil sensor wire which he agreed with and behold, success - it works perfectly. My soldering job on the back of the switch musn't be too bad!



Now to add coils, pipe & carbs and try to fire her up....

[Redman]

Good to hear of your success.
did you soldering job that you mentioned take care of the lite-only-dim situation you mentioned.

so if engine not running, should have oil light and sidestand light both on, even if side stand is up, and then both go off when start engine. I am trying to teach myself to observe that.

if sidestand is down when start engine, the oil light should go off but the sidestand light stay on, until put up the sidestand.

is that how yours is operating now??

notice that this entire discussion did not involve the clutch lever switch. The clutch lever switch (called starter idisconnect switch on schematic) only effects the starter solenoid.

[Redman]

Tell your EE friend that he is correct... although if just wired some interlock into the sidestand circuit, then could not start (or run) the bike with the sidestand down.

also tell him that you know an other EE (with industrial controls experince), that had particular reason (a-hem) to look into this, and he concluded that to implement a reasonable sidestand - ignition interlock that would need two relays:
- one that is operated by the sidestand circuit (before the diode so Only the sidestand)
- one that is operated by the neutral switch.
- then wire the contacts of those relays (i’ll Skip those details here) into the power to the coils, kinda like the coil relay mod,..... or could wire the contacts into the entire Org/wht circuit the same as the kill switch. So could start and run engine with side stand down as long as in neutral, but would kill ignition only when side stand down (well, not fully up) AND in gear (not neutral) at the same time.

[salty_monk]

Sounds about right Dave.. that's kind of how I was thinking he meant it. He was on the self destruct circuitry side of things....

I know just enough electronics to be dangerous but I get there in the end...

Oh and whilst we're on this subject... mind explaining to me in laymans terms why I shouldn't have my SH775 wired in through a fuse direct to battery & should have instead routed it through the fuse box primary? Something to do with more current going through the fusebox but then I got lost...
The 1100G is wired that way but the Skunk has been wired direct to the battery (through a 30amp fuse) for several years now....

[Redman]

.......
..... ............. Something to do with more current going through the fusebox . . . .
. . . . ..

sounds about right.

Let’s see, how to explain this without going into too much detail. ....o
In stock wiring the r/r output is tied into the wire going from main fuse to the ignition switch.

In stock config: think of engine at rpm where the r/r is putting out enough voltage to charge the battery, some of the r/r current is going to ignition switch and then the other fuses to run the entire bike, and the only current to charge the battery is going thru (back thru) the main fuse.
think of bike at idle when r/r not putting out enough voltage to charge the battery, then all the current to run the bike is comming from the battery thru the main fuse.

So if put r/r direct to battery, then have all the current to run the entire bike going thru main fuse all the time, not just at idle. Which, is why some folks say “more current thru main fuse” and is a problem. I have not had one wired that way to know if is a problem. To me, it’s not more current, it’s the same current (that the main fuse/wiring needs to be able to handle anyway) but just more often. Maybe someone else has further experience. But, yah, this is another subject, not related to sidestand switch.

but then, at idle the system voltage is ,say, 12.5, and at rpm the system voltage is higher, say 13.5 or more, so lights are drawing a bit more current. So yah, bike using some more current at rpm than is at idle. So if wire r/r to battery, then at rpm will be more current thru main fuse than if wired stock (r/r tied in between main fuse and ignition switch) all the while at rpm. But I don’t know if that is enough to be a problem. I suppose if is some corrosion at the main fuse, then will be having the current there more often, not just at idle.

okay, I can’t help myself, I am more detail oriented. Want to discuss things in specific detail. (Maybe more than you care to read, especially for all the better I can explain myself)

Dan, glad to help.

one advantage of having rr direct to battery thru fuse is that under certain failures of the Rr ,it will blow that fuse (you probably will not notice right away) but you are still running and/or can still start bike as long as battery holds up.
in stock wiring under that same certain rr failure, it blows your main fuse, and you are kaput right then. (Can disconnect rr and replace fuse and continue as long as battery holds out).

Dave

[salty_monk]

What I know is that under certain conditions you can blow a 20amp fuse wired direct to the battery.... No problems with a 30amp fuse though. Oh and to help with the blown fuse issue (after I had a 20amp blow & as you said didn't realise for a bit...) I use one of those fuses with a little LED inside the fuse itself, when it blows the light comes on, not a complete cure but a little more helpful (as you'll see it in the dark even with the seat down).