1980 GS450L Oil Pan Hardware

[Guest]

For the past few weeks, I have been in the midst of experiencing one hell of an oil change (hence the several week duration). First I stripped the threads on the pan for the drain plug, bought a new one online, stupidly forgot that a gasket replacement would probably be needed, ordered that, had to wait for the USPS to finally get it to me, and then this Saturday, when I finally thought I was going to be able to wrap this up, I was putting the new pan on and one of the bolts snapped in half as I was putting it in. I was using a torque wrench and didn't go super tight but it just broke right off soooooo a couple questions:

Does anyone know if that hardware is standard in any way? Can I pick up some of those bolts at a hardware store or do they need to be the same thing used from a parts bike or something?

I haven't been able to find one but is there a specification for how tight those bolts should be. I have the recommendation for the drain plug in the Clymer manual but I have not seen anything for the bolts securing the pan to the bike.

Worst case scenario, if the bolt is snapped off inside and there is nothing to grip it and spin the end out, I'm probably going to have to drill that out...unless anyone has any suggestions there. I'm reaching the end of my brain power and patience here.

Any help in getting me past this nightmare of an oil change would be greatly appreciated.

[Brendan W]

Manual here. Should have everything you need. http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/
Looking at the parts fiche that screw is 6x30mm. Is there a marking on the head like 4 or 7?
In general Suzuki recommend.....
A 7 would be torqued to 6 - 8.5 lb-ft
A 4 or blank 3-5 lb-ft
There may be more specific information in the manual above
Personally for a job like that a torque wrench is the spawn of the Devil.
I always use the Force.
Be patient getting that screw out. Tool up right.

Oooops! Looks like that link is to a Clymer manual.

The 1980 850 has 6mm pan screws as well and the manual suggests 4.5 - 6.5 lb-ft

[John Park]

The critical thing is that the two bolts [ as I recall there are two ] that reside in the front middle of the pan rather than on the perimeter need to be there as they are dealing with oil pressure. The rest just deal with splash. The gasket is thick like a valve cover gasket so you only need the bolts what I call wrist tight and even. If one bolt is missing it is likely that the cover won't leak; if a bolt is broken you were way overtorqueing it. They don't just fall apart. The only way you break one is if it is seized with rust into the block and won't come out; not a likely thing down in the sump.

Here's how it works. You tighten a bolt after it engages resistance and at some point the resistance rises sharply. For these sorts of things that's where you stop. For loaded bolts like head and cam cap bolts you need to preload the bolt against large forces so there is a critical torque. Nothing is pulling on the pan. I've never bothered with it, but there is a torque spec for the valve cover bolts and I see no reason not to use that on these bolts. I think it's about 6 foot pounds or so, max.

The broken bolt will have broken at the threads and is probably not hard to remove if you can grasp it. If you can't, then I'd get experienced help before perforating the lower half of your block.

Quite why you were using a torque wrench without knowing what to set it at eludes me.

[theCreature8]

Manual here. Should have everything you need. http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/
Looking at the parts fiche that screw is 6x30mm. Is there a marking on the head like 4 or 7?
In general Suzuki recommend.....
A 7 would be torqued to 6 - 8.5 lb-ft
A 4 or blank 3-5 lb-ft
There may be more specific information in the manual above
Personally for a job like that a torque wrench is the spawn of the Devil.
I always use the Force.
Be patient getting that screw out. Tool up right.

Oooops! Looks like that link is to a Clymer manual.

The 1980 850 has 6mm pan screws as well and the manual suggests 4.5 - 6.5 lb-ft

thanks for providing that link and the info. It looks like there are some additional items on that page so maybe I can learn a thing or two (very new at all of this so I'm learning as I go and the results are not always favorable). My short days in the garage haven't quite taught me what the right tool for the job is every single time.

The critical thing is that the two bolts [ as I recall there are two ] that reside in the front middle of the pan rather than on the perimeter need to be there as they are dealing with oil pressure. The rest just deal with splash. The gasket is thick like a valve cover gasket so you only need the bolts what I call wrist tight and even. If one bolt is missing it is likely that the cover won't leak; if a bolt is broken you were way overtorqueing it. They don't just fall apart. The only way you break one is if it is seized with rust into the block and won't come out; not a likely thing down in the sump.

Here's how it works. You tighten a bolt after it engages resistance and at some point the resistance rises sharply. For these sorts of things that's where you stop. For loaded bolts like head and cam cap bolts you need to preload the bolt against large forces so there is a critical torque. Nothing is pulling on the pan. I've never bothered with it, but there is a torque spec for the valve cover bolts and I see no reason not to use that on these bolts. I think it's about 6 foot pounds or so, max.

The broken bolt will have broken at the threads and is probably not hard to remove if you can grasp it. If you can't, then I'd get experienced help before perforating the lower half of your block.

Quite why you were using a torque wrench without knowing what to set it at eludes me.

Thank you. All valuable information.

As for your last point--I'm learning. That's what people learning do, make mistakes. I had a number for the drain plug and I (unwisely) thought that would probably be okay for the other hardware as well (I was on 7 ft. lbs so I wasn't just throwing a number at it and hoping it worked). I didn't just go in blindly with a torque wrench and start turning things until they snapped. Rest assured, I will not be doing it again and will consider asking the questions first next time in hopes of saving myself some time and some headaches but it is what it is right now.

[Gorminrider]

There are TWO kinds of torque wrench commonly available. A big one for big bolts (ft/lbs) and a little one for little bolts (inch/lbs). The little one is most useful on motorcycles because the human brain doesn't do well gauging small forces.
The big one is used for axlebolts, motormounts, axles.
The little one is used for valve-covers, oil-sump pans...the little, skinny bolts...
that most humans can easily break, being unable to gauge much more than "tight-not tight".

Oily bolts use less torque than the manual specifies.
Multiply ft/lbs by 12 for inch/lbs so .....6 ft/lbs =72 inch/lbs.
Torque wrenches are not accurate at the lower and upper limits of their range. If you are trying to set a BIG torque wrench to 5 ft/lbs...well, good luck..but at the least you should hang a 5lb bag of sugar 1 foot from the socket end and see if it clicks...

[theCreature8]

There are TWO kinds of torque wrench commonly available. A big one for big bolts (ft/lbs) and a little one for little bolts (inch/lbs). The little one is most useful on motorcycles because the human brain doesn't do well gauging small forces.
The big one is used for axlebolts, motormounts, axles.
The little one is used for valve-covers, oil-sump pans...the little, skinny bolts...
that most humans can easily break, being unable to gauge much more than "tight-not tight".

Oily bolts use less torque than the manual specifies.
Multiply ft/lbs by 12 for inch/lbs so .....6 ft/lbs =72 inch/lbs.
Torque wrenches are not accurate at the lower and upper limits of their range. If you are trying to set a BIG torque wrench to 5 ft/lbs...well, good luck..but at the least you should hang a 5lb bag of sugar 1 foot from the socket end and see if it clicks...

ahh...and here I thought adding a torque wrench to the tool box was an all-around great idea. Glad I didn't use it on the drain plug and screw that up again! Appreciate the info.

[Gorminrider]

Part of the problem can be if a Previous "mechanically-inclined" owner has yarded them on too tight and stressed-stretched the bolts before you ever got the bike-it's a hard thing to know beforehand. Previous Owners can often be blamed

Buttorquewrenches are a good idea but you need both the big and little ones...I even carry a long (cheapo) spring arm type for wheels in the car (70-80 ft/lbs). So I know for sure I can get them off changing to snows or putting the spare on- and, it saves warping the disk brakes too, I've been told and...I've seen too many where tire shop guys overdo it.