1150 starter motors

[Carter Turk]

I pulled a fully functioning starter motor out my wifes stock 1150 and put it in my bigger piston 1150.

I've had many starter clutch failures (3) but remedied it with a dowel between the rotor and starter clutch housing. So I'm sorta ruling that part out.

Could the size of the pistons cause the starter motor to work that much harder?

I pulled the starter motor in my bike to check the brushes and communicator, but thought hey why don't I try the working one in the other 1150 and see what happens.

The first blip of the starter button and full choke and it started eagerly, but a short ride maybe 10 miles, it may or may not start. Today it started the second time, but the third and forth time did not.

Tommorrow morning it wil start, probably.

It appears both starter motors work intermitently, however the one I borrowed from the wife's, always starts her bike no problem.

The battery is new. Thanks for any insight.

[earlfor]

I think it likely that the bigger pistons do load the starter more heavily. On my 1150, starting can be a bit tricky. I have enough compression to kick the starter back if I let off the starter button too soon. My proceedure is to switch fuel on (pingel fuel valve, gravity flow, not a vacuum valve), wait 15 seconds for the the petcock to top off the float bowls. Press starter button.
Bike will fire and start on the 1st revolution........however, I do not release the starter button until the bike is running well enough to add throttle. (usually about 3 revolutions) If I release the starter button before it is firing smoothly on all four, It will kick back and destroy the starter clutch pins. If it dies, I wait until the engine is completely stopped before pressing the starter button again. I've found the solution is to keep the starter turning until the engine is running, not just firing.

Earl

I pulled a fully functioning starter motor out my wifes stock 1150 and put it in my bigger piston 1150.

I've had many starter clutch failures (3) but remedied it with a dowel between the rotor and starter clutch housing. So I'm sorta ruling that part out.

Could the size of the pistons cause the starter motor to work that much harder?

I pulled the starter motor in my bike to check the brushes and communicator, but thought hey why don't I try the working one in the other 1150 and see what happens.

The first blip of the starter button and full choke and it started eagerly, but a short ride maybe 10 miles, it may or may not start. Today it started the second time, but the third and forth time did not.

Tommorrow morning it wil start, probably.

It appears both starter motors work intermitently, however the one I borrowed from the wife's, always starts her bike no problem.

The battery is new. Thanks for any insight.

[Boondocks]

The Ball Peen Solution

I had an intermittent starter problem. It started when riding in cold, wet winter weather. It would usually work when the battery was fully charged and the engine was cold. When warmed up, and later even if the engine died when still cold, it wouldn't restart. Occasionally I could get it to start by leaving it in gear and rocking the starter.

After some searching and reading, it seemed that the starter had the symptoms of a "flat spot" or "dragging starter". I got a lot of push starting practice in the meantime, and it got progressively worse. Finally it wouldn't even reliably start with a fully charged battery when cold. After thinking it through, it seemed that these symptoms could be caused by stiction in the starter brushes.

I removed the starter cover, tied the clutch lever back to have a free hand while I used my right hand to press the starter button. With my left hand I tapped the starter housing with a small ball peen hammer. Sure enough, the starter caught and started spinning like new. I had to give it a few more "ball peen therapy" sessions before I could put the starter cover back on permanently. The starter has worked perfectly well ever since, and it's been about a year since I last had the problem.

[tfb]

Yes, those graphite brushes actually cop a mild sideways load due to the rotation of the commutator (or whatever it's called), and they can then 'bed in' to their metal housings, and not maintain proper pressure on the commutator.

I also think that as they reach their wear limit, the springs pushing them run out of 'push'. So popping in a new set of brushes does the trick.

And yes, flicking the fuel tap to 'Prime' (I don't have one of those spiffy Pingle taps yet) for a moment before hitting the starter button, ensures that the fuel bowls are topped up and everything's ready to rip.

Mike.

[Carter Turk]

Thanks for the insight.

I do have a Pingel (no vacuumline) but never touch it. It remains in the on position and my reserve mysteriously dissappeared. It'll run the tank dry in the on position. Wouldn't the float bowls be full of fuel anyway if the float needles were doing there job?

If it starts the stock 1150 willingly every time, wouldn't that indicate the brushes and communicator are ok?

[earlfor]

I always turn the Pingel off before turning the ignition off. I usually let the bike run about 10 seconds with the pingle off to lower the fuel level. I dont rely on the carb fuel inlet needles shutting off seepage 100%. I HATE finding gas in the crankcase. :-)

Earl

Thanks for the insight.

I do have a Pingel (no vacuumline) but never touch it. It remains in the on position and my reserve mysteriously dissappeared. It'll run the tank dry in the on position. Wouldn't the float bowls be full of fuel anyway if the float needles were doing there job?

If it starts the stock 1150 willingly every time, wouldn't that indicate the brushes and communicator are ok?

[tfb]

On my old Katana the fuel doesn't end up in the crankcase... it ends up running back into the airbox, and then draining out over the back of the engine and onto the garage floor, saturating the place with fumes. Lucky I don't smoke.

So I got a new fuel tap diaphragm etc. because unfortunately we can't trust those float needles to do their job. And one day the diaphragm will let you down too... no wonder manually operated taps are so popular around here!

Mike.

[earlfor]

Yeah, I must be one of the unlucky ones in the petcock department. I never had a vacuum operated petcock that worked properly longer than I could hold my breath. LOL I got tired of fussing with them. Now, when I get a bike, need it or not at the time, the first thing I do is put a manual petcock on it.
ehehe

Earl

On my old Katana the fuel doesn't end up in the crankcase... it ends up running back into the airbox, and then draining out over the back of the engine and onto the garage floor, saturating the place with fumes. Lucky I don't smoke.

So I got a new fuel tap diaphragm etc. because unfortunately we can't trust those float needles to do their job. And one day the diaphragm will let you down too... no wonder manually operated taps are so popular around here!

Mike.

[rphillips]

Be careful pecking on the GS starter with a hammer. It's not a Chevrolet starter. When I got my "83" GS 1100, the previous owner said the starter was bad. It was, he had been pecking on it with a hammer & broke the magnets loose, that are only glued to the inside of the outer case of the starter. When the magnets get loose or broke, I'd think that starter is beyond repair.

[Boondocks]

Be careful pecking on the GS starter with a hammer. It's not a Chevrolet starter.

No kidding. This is real news.:shock:

When I got my "83" GS 1100, the previous owner said the starter was bad. It was, he had been pecking on it with a hammer & broke the magnets loose, that are only glued to the inside of the outer case of the starter. When the magnets get loose or broke, I'd think that starter is beyond repair.

I am the original owner of my '80 GS1100ET, and my starter works just like new. Nothing is broken, and it starts the engine immediately.

[earlfor]

Thats because your primary repair tool is not a hammer. You know youre in trouble when your mechanic opens his tool chest and the only thing he has in it is 99 hammers in various sizes. :-)

Earl

I am the original owner of my '80 GS1100ET, and my starter works just like new. Nothing is broken, and it starts the engine immediately.

[Boondocks]

Thats because your primary repair tool is not a hammer. You know youre in trouble when your mechanic opens his tool chest and the only thing he has in it is 99 hammers in various sizes. :-)

Earl

Exactly.:-D

I have been a tool lover since I got my first motorcycle at 15, and have done my own repairs ever since. I have continued to add various tools over the years to the point of excess. The only reduction has been a complete set of Craftsman Whitworth sockets and wrenches which I sold when the Brits switched to metric and I switched to Japanese bikes. A hammer is not something I would normally use on a motorcycle, unless with an impact driver or something requiring force. My "Ball Peen Solution" story is not an endorsement of hammering on motorcycle parts, but the amusing irony of using a method that sounds mindlessly brutal to revive a starter. It's about keeping an open mind as to what might work and why, no matter how unconventional or dumb it may seem at first.