Oil info from the "poll" section.

[JMHJ]

Nice marketing effort. I dislike deception though, and wasting money on things I don't need.

I've never used m/c-specific oil in my bikes, and I've never had a problem with a clutch or engine as a result (1,000s of miles). I've used semi-synthetic also, without a problem. I don't use STP, per the manual's prohibition, not that I would anyway in a clean, low-mileage engine.

Further, I change my oil based on how it looks, not by mileage or time. Hey, if it still looks clean and feels slippery, it must be good.

Finally, I don't buy the expensive brands. If I can eat Great Value (Wal Mart), my vehicles can too. I just make sure the oil I use meets the proper API rating (SH, SJ, or whatever it's up to now). Even the cheaper brand I use claims to meet or exceed new car maker's warranty requirements.

What brand/type of motor oil to use is one of those subjective things where opinions and stories abound. Specific personal results are more of a long-term issue, and not immediately available. Even then, those results may be mis-interpreted as being to the blame or praise of the particular oil used.

[The Kelzer]

Some of you people are very bizarre......

I worked in the accessory department for American Suzuki. That department was involved in many things including the development of various lubricants and additives. The motorcycle lubrication issues with automotive oils were thrust to the front of our agenda....it was that serious.

I stated I was not a oil scientist...but I consider myself much more than a "layman". I was simply trying to put my experience into terms most people in the forum could understand. Apparently, I failed.

As far as my experience goes I was a Product Development Technician and I was involved in several of the meetings with the oil scientists. We were not there to put a motorcycle picture on a car oil and charge double for it (Are you people really that cheap to begin with that price is more important than quality? C'mon now were talking a few bucks here!). We were there to solve very promenent issues regarding the latest auto oils and there negative effects in motorcycle engines/gear cases. The Factory had concerns that we needed to look at immediately and we did.

Now, I could continue to debate this fact until we are all blue in the face but there is one thing missing from most of your retorts on the subject, and that is the understanding that the NEW auto oils are not the same as the old ones. They have been modified extensively. Some of those tweeks are not condusive to motorcycle engines/transmissions. (The shop manual for my 2003 GSXR1000 states to use Suzuki Performance 4 Motor Oil OR an API SF or SG rated oils.....most new auto oils are SL.....so why specificaly state SF or SG ....a 4 generation older oil?? Because auto oils changed after that time frame and are no longer condusive to motorcycles. It's that simple.

While the car transmission analogy I used was brought up by several people, they too missed the point. Yes the tranny's in your ancient MGB requires motor oil (from that time period...and no wet clutch.), Your Honda civic may too (it doesn't have a wet clutch either.) etc etc... Not a single person said it was OK to put GL-5 in their motor because it's obviously a different type of lubricant proving not all lubricants are the same! Motor oils are different now. I think the fork oil in my old GS is supposed to be 10w-40 motor oil too. Well heck then, those fancy pants fork oil companies must be BS too then huh ? I bet Matt Mladin runs good ol'e Penzoil 10w-40 in his bike and forks! Hell, he's a 4 time champ, he must know what works and what doesn't then right.....Gyaawly.

As you all know Suzuki makes a WONDERFUL product and depends on it's reliabilty and performance to keep it's customers happy. If you don't agree with what I'm saying, that's fine. But don't tell me I'm wrong when I've seen the testing results from the Factory in Japan and have been in the discussions and you haven't.

As previously mentioned. I'm just trying to help.

It's your bike......and apparently your precious $25 bucks (or case of beer) is more important.

It's that simple.

Aloha,
Kelzer.

[Grandpa]

Some of you people are very bizarre......

Kelzer.

I agree.

I use motorcycle oil, Suzuki or Honda or Yamalube or Valvoline or whatever dino is available, for the reasons Kelzer stated. Maybe a waste of money, but I'm not willing to take that chance.

Kelzer, I agree with what dpep said about taking things personally. Don't. They're entitled to their bizarreness (if that's a word...) and I've learned it's not personal -- just bizarre.

[The Kelzer]

Thanks Grandpa, yours and several other peoples kind words allow me to keep the faith. As far as I'm concerned right now Bizarreness is DEFINITELY a word!

Keep riding,
Kelzer

[dpep]

As far as my experience goes I was a Product Development Technician and I was involved in several of the meetings with the oil scientists. We were not there to put a motorcycle picture on a car oil and charge double for it (Are you people really that cheap to begin with that price is more important than quality? C'mon now were talking a few bucks here!). We were there to solve very promenent issues regarding the latest auto oils and there negative effects in motorcycle engines/gear cases. The Factory had concerns that we needed to look at immediately and we did.

I assume the Suzuki scientists did some testing to determine that their product was actually superior to automobile formulations. Was any of it published? The problem here is that there is nothing in the public domain that supports the claims you make other than product advertising. If you know of any such studies, please point them out. I am eager to read them; this is a subject in which I have always had great interest. I have read every oil comparison I have ever come across, including those published in recent years since the introduction of energy conserving oils. The knowledge gained in that reading is what motivates me to use the oil I use. I do not pick an oil because it is the cheapest, but it sounds to me like you pick an oil because it is the most expensive. The objective research I have viewed tells me that the most expensive products in some cases do not lubricate as well as lower priced alternatives. The best way to protect your motorcycle is to be an intelligent consumer. Simply assuming that if something costs more it is better isn't very intelligent. One only need thumb through a few issues of Consumer Reports to be dissuaded of that belief.

[jimcor]

Well, The Kelzer, welcome to the GS Resources. Nice way to become a valued forum member, jumping on board and assuming some of us are a bunch of cheapies and know nothings in less than 10 posts. And now some of us are bizarre. All because some don't agree with you and your slant on oil. Oil. The most debated thread on any motor website. And just who made you the final authority on oil? Why you did! All based on your statement that you worked for Suzuki and were a member of their accessory department with lubicant development as part of your job responsibility. Hell, this is the Internet you can be Mr. Suzuki if you want. So please drop in often and let us know how smart you are and keep trying to help us out. :-D

[83'GK]

Some of you people are very bizarre......
I stated I was not a oil scientist...but I consider myself much more than a "layman". I was simply trying to put my experience into terms most people in the forum could understand. Apparently, I failed.

I think what you fail to understand that while you may have sat in meetings and learned alot about lubricants, alot of us here have had similar experiences. Your boast about sulpher in oils tells me alot about what kind of information you were getting in those meetings. Some of us consider ourselves more than mere 'laymen' as well.

We were not there to put a motorcycle picture on a car oil and charge double for it (Are you people really that cheap to begin with that price is more important than quality? C'mon now were talking a few bucks here!).

Problem is, several manufacturers did just that. And Cheap? That example you just gave is a marketers dream..."Whats a few extra dollars"..I will tell you waht it is...BIG $$$ for the company. FACT.

Now, I could continue to debate this fact until we are all blue in the face but there is one thing missing from most of your retorts on the subject, and that is the understanding that the NEW auto oils are not the same as the old ones. They have been modified extensively. Some of those tweeks are not condusive to motorcycle engines/transmissions. (The shop manual for my 2003 GSXR1000 states to use Suzuki Performance 4 Motor Oil OR an API SF or SG rated oils.....most new auto oils are SL.....so why specificaly state SF or SG ....a 4 generation older oil?? Because auto oils changed after that time frame and are no longer condusive to motorcycles. It's that simple.

Unfortunately, it is NOT that simple. One reason M/C manufacturers reccomend SG oils is that amount of ZDDP and phosphorus, a great 'barrier additive'. In newer oils, these were removed or lowered due to issues with catalytic converters which M/C's do not have issue with. However, those, while proven and great in operation, have been replaced by other chemicals such as Boron and Moly which have equal properties for protection. M/C's do not have emission concerns as automobiles do, and therefore can run oils with high levels of ZDDP and phosphorus, and since they are 'stable standby's', the manufactures' can recommend them without issues. Those 'barrier' additives are still needed in automotive applications as well, just because they are car engines, does not mean they do not need 'barrier additives' as well. They are just of a different formulation, with 'different but equal' characteristics.

While the car transmission analogy I used was brought up by several people, they too missed the point. Yes the tranny's in your ancient MGB requires motor oil (from that time period...and no wet clutch.), Your Honda civic may too (it doesn't have a wet clutch either.) etc etc... Not a single person said it was OK to put GL-5 in their motor because it's obviously a different type of lubricant proving not all lubricants are the same! Motor oils are different now. I think the fork oil in my old GS is supposed to be 10w-40 motor oil too. Well heck then, those fancy pants fork oil companies must be BS too then huh ? I bet Matt Mladin runs good ol'e Penzoil 10w-40 in his bike and forks! Hell, he's a 4 time champ, he must know what works and what doesn't then right.....Gyaawly.

GL-5 oils are specifically different, what you are comparing is not any different than saying 'why dont you run Dextron lll in your engine'. As for Fork oils, like GL-5's and Dextron's, they are specific types of fluids. M/C oils, are basically the same as car oils, with each one installing additives THEY feel will protect an engine better than the competitors oils. And in fact, most M/C oils, sans synthetics, are usually group I or group II oils! Most synthetics are usually Esther-based or PAO. And while on the subject of forks, My manual does say Transmission fluid can be used in the fork. Hmmm, maybe the fork oil guys are BS after all....

If you don't agree with what I'm saying, that's fine. But don't tell me I'm wrong when I've seen the testing results from the Factory in Japan and have been in the discussions and you haven't.

As previously mentioned. I'm just trying to help.

And please don't tell us or assume we are all a bunch of non-knowing stupid f***s because we haven't sat in on a Suzuki meeting or two...Some of us here have sat in on other things that YOU have not....

It's THAT simple....

[ron bayless]

Er, i am late in this conversation and i am glas i was.Can anyone tell me if castrol gtx is ok to run in my 1980 gs 1000 with 35,000 miles on it without making anyone mad?

[The Kelzer]

Whatever 83GK

I'll never try to help you out again.

My mistake.....

Aloha Mahu,
Kelzer

[83'GK]

Whatever 83GK

I'll never try to help you out again.

My mistake.....

Aloha Mahu,
Kelzer

trying to help, and dismissing people as 'intellectually inferior' when you don't know them are two different things. I value what your trying to convey here, but your attitude about it leaves much to be desired. I think both of us have valid points, but you tend to dismiss mine and me (and others posting here as well) as not knowing anything about oils.

[83'GK]

Er, i am late in this conversation and i am glas i was.Can anyone tell me if castrol gtx is ok to run in my 1980 gs 1000 with 35,000 miles on it without making anyone mad?

The Kelzer: NO!

83'GK: Sure!

You decide!

[The Kelzer]

Ron, If you're educated in the subject you certainly wouldn't run the current formulation of GTX in any motorcycle. But 83 GK would...you decide. But he's never seen a disassembled motor after FACTORY testing, I have. So what's he really know on the subject, very little real world knowledge if you ask me.

[tkent02]

'77 GS 550 over 100,000 miles and no clutch slippage...

when it was dissassembled had near zero wear on any metal parts...Put in new rings for the heck of it but the old ones were fine. This with Mobil one CAR oil. So you can take your motorcycle oil and pour it where the sun don't shine.

[dpep]

Er, i am late in this conversation and i am glas i was.Can anyone tell me if castrol gtx is ok to run in my 1980 gs 1000 with 35,000 miles on it without making anyone mad?

Catrol is fine. 10W40 or 20W50. As long as you check the can to make sure it does not say "Energy Conserving" most any brand of oil will work for you....if you change it regularly. At present I believe only the lower weight oils, 30w and below, are energy conserving.

[earlfor]

Castrol GTX 20w50 or 10w40 is fine. I used the 20w50 for MANY years and it doesnt come in the "engergy conserving" flavor. :-)

Earl

Catrol is fine. 10W40 or 20W50. As long as you check the can to make sure it does not say "Energy Conserving" most any brand of oil will work for you....if you change it regularly. At present I believe only the lower weight oils, 30w and below, are energy conserving.