GS1100E Clutch Thrust Bearing

[jrp]

Hello all,

I have a GS1100E that has a clutch rattle that occurs only at a cold idle and goes away when the bike warms up. Rattle also ceases when clutch is engaged. Sounds like someone threw a bunch of gravel in there.

I pulled the clutch cover, grabbed the release rack and moved it around. It sounded exactly like the rattle I was hearing. Would a bad thrust bearing or worn thrust bearing washer produce a noise similar to the one described above (and go away at normal operating temperature)? I don't want to remove the plates, hub and basket if I only need to replace the thrust bearing or washer. Does anyone know how much clearance is acceptable between the E-ring and the pressure plate? I was able to get a .012" feeler gauge in there. That seemed like a lot of clearance.

I am going to remove the pressure plate tomorrow night.

Thanks,
Jeff

[jrp]

Forgot to add that I can move the clutch basket a bit laterally. Perhaps the nut is loose.

[NICK!]

Without being able to hear it I would guess you need a clutch basket. You could also be correct in that the center nut could be loose and that does cause a "banging" noise. GS1100 clutch baskets are a famous soft spot. Pull the whole clutch assembly out and see if the springs are loose and if the backing plate is cracked. It probably will be. Send it to Falicon and let them fix it up, you'll never have to worry about it again for a stock bike.

[jrp]

Nick, the clutch sleeve hub nut is loose.

The lock washer appears to be installed correctly, with the tongue
of the washer bent against the nut. I have read at least one other
post here describing the same situation. Attached is a picture of
the hub nut, where you can clearly see that the washer is bent
against the nut. As far as I can tell, the loose nut was causing
the basket to wobble.

I am thinking of stopping here and replacing the washer and using
the hub nut that APE sells. Does this sound like a worthy plan?
Or should I go ahead and take apart the rest of the clutch assembly?

Thanks,
Jeff

[NICK!]

You can tighten the nut and see if the sound goes away, my guess would be some of the sound might go away but those GS1100 clutch baskets are almost always loose or worse. Since your going to replace the lock washer or at least your going to have to straighten out the old one to tighten that nut you just might as well just spend another few minutes and pull the plates hub and basket and see what you've got while your in there. If the springs are not loose and the backing plate is not cracked and the gear doesn't move a lot on the basket you can be pretty sure your OK, if the rivets are welded then you know somebody already had the basket done. Not sure what the APE clutch nut is, never used anything but stock nuts on even 1580 motors, the new lock plate is a good idea.

[jrp]

I removed and examined the clutch basket.

The basket seems to be in very tight. No movement of the backplate
or loose rivets. The only issue (if it is an issue) is that the three
heavy duty springs are a little loose and rattle around a bit. But
no lateral movement at all of the primary gear. The loose springs
can't go anywhere due to the way they are installed. Are the springs
an issue?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Mike McNaney]

I just got finished completely going thru the clutch in my 83' 1100e. and it is like butter. Ive also gone thru this severel times in the past. The APE nut is a good upgrade. The re-used nut has been fatigued. Those nuts should be replaced every time the cluch is replaced. Also APE has a 10 disc clucth kit thats great if you need plates. You also need to see if the pressure plate springs are all the same height, and if you have pressureplate spring bolts that use a spacer inside the spring, you need to check the spacers for knarling from the springs and not being flat anymore. The inner clutch hub wobbling around can mess up some stuff. Bike Bandit has all the stock stuff. You can get a new splined spacer lock washer from Bike Bandit too. When you tighten the hub nut 36 then 50lbs, the washer is usualy bent up against a flat on the nut to "lock" it in place. Those hub nuts are a problem not nessesarily because of the nut but because of the shaft having reliefs in the end, interupting the threads. For the cheap price of the stuff to do it right it wont happen again.

[RobGS850L]

I know on my 1100 my clutch assy is a bit loose even when tightened all the way. I read in the Clymers that if the little rubber plug isn't in place on the back where the oil pump drive rides against the basket there will be a bit of noise. Mine has noise and nothing bad has happened yet but it is a bit unnerving at best. The plug is probably half the size of a pencil eraser. It's in my Clymers on page 85 sentence #2. Page 86 pic 35.2a shows the plug. The noise I have isn't all that easy to hear but I can hear it. :?

[Mike McNaney]

If your hub wobbles or is loose after the nut is tightened properly, you most likely need a new hub or as a crutch, a thicker thrust washer behind it. Bike Bandit has both. Not real expensive either.
Thats how all the Clutch Basket explosions start. Loose nut, wobbling hub, a couple WOT gear changes and BOOM! Broken everything.

[jrp]

One other thing I forgot to mention is that there is a shim behind
the thrust washer. It does not appear in any of the parts diagrams
I have seen. Has anyone else encountered this? My bike is an '83
GS1100.

I'll look for that rubber plug that was mentioned.

Should I be concerned about the clutch basket? As I said, the
only thing I could find was that the three heavy duty springs
are a bit loose.

The plates look new. I'm going to measure them today and then
order some parts.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Mike McNaney]

That shim belongs there. Between the hub sleeve and the thrust washer. You'll notice it fills the small recess. The plastic plug he's talking about is on the back of the flywheel and goes in a hole drilled in the reliefs for the oil pump drive. It helps to keep the teeth from rattling in the reliefs.
If those backing plate springs are loose enough to rattle then that means Id look at the rivets being loose holding the flywheel to the Basket. Maybe not loose enough to turn or feel by hand though.

[jrp]

The HD springs rattle because they are compressed a little and there is movement sideways. The rivets appear to be tight and in excellent condition.

Thanks,
Jeff

[NICK!]

I wouldn't put that back in your engine, its just not worth it. Call Falicon and see how much they get now to modify your stock basket, it was fifty bucks back in the late 80's so even if its a hundred now its money well spent. If that thing grenades in there the whole motor has to come apart completely to clean out the shrapnel. Frankly, I wouldn't put even a brand new Suzuki 1100 basket in an engine without sending it to Falicon first. Is the aluminum where the friction plates ride stepped badly? There is a chance too that when Falicon gets it apart it will be unusable, that happened on my own 1100 about 1994 and luckily they had another usable basket there they sold me for $50 plus the labor to modify it, I really don't remember what they charged me for labor in 1994, for some reason $75 rings a bell.

[jrp]

Nick, I was thinking about calling Falicon and your post just reinforced what I was contemplating. I'd rather pay a little now than a lot later.

Yes, the basket is stepped from the friction plates, but I don't have the experience to make the call on whether it is still usable or not. I'll let Falicon make that determination.

Thanks,
Jeff

[jrp]

Done

I'm done with the clutch, so I'll close out this thread with an explaination of what I did.

The guy I spoke with at Falicon suggested that I replace the basket with a new OEM one. When I mentioned that the OEM clutch baskets were a bit weak on the GS1100 he said the the replacement baskets Suzuki is shipping today have a heavier backing plate..interesting.

So..I ended up replacing the basket, hub springs, hub nut lock washer, rubber plug on rear of basket and the fiber plates. The plates that I took out were within spec, but only a few thou within spec. Decided that I didn't want to rip it all out again in a couple of years.

Clutch is quiet as a mouse now. I suspect that if I had done nothing more than tighten the clutch hub nut it would have gotten rid of the noise.

Speaking of that nut..I have read other accounts of people finding that nut loose and was wondering how that could be. After some thinking, I have a hypothesis.

Logic dictates that there is no way that nut can turn if the lock washer is installed properly. I think that the culprit for most people is the rubber plug on the rear of the clutch basket. When installed new, that plug sticks out quite a bit and the dog on the face of the oil pump drive pinion is smashed against the plug when the hub nut is tightened. So the dog is not perfectly flat against the back of the clutch basket..it is resting on top of the squished rubber plug. As it should be.

Over time, the rubber plug slowly deteriorates and now there is a little bit of play between the oil pump drive pinion and the rear of the clutch basket. This results in the loose clutch hub nut that many people encounter.

Many thanks to all who replied.

Jeff