Battery draining fast...regulator??

[Boondocks]

Are you measuring the current leak using the milliamp scale on your meter? A start setting of 200M or 400M DC (whatever is closest on your meter) should work, and then work downwards to the lowest scale that will contain the reading.

What is the reading at the main fuse when the ignition switch is connected? What is it when you disconnect the ignition plug in the headlight shell? Size matters when current leaks. If the current leak is insignificant you may not have to do anything with the plug.

If the current leak with the ignition plug disconnected is still significant, it could be caused by conductive contaminants in the plug. Try blasting the plug with electrical contact cleaner and air pressure, and then spray WD-40 in the plug. A leak is not likely in wires the first couple of inches coming out of the plug because: a.)you could probably see the problem and b.)you can physically separate the wires and there is no way that they could short together.

...The orange wires goes straight back to the ignition fuse holder which I find terribly confusing...because there is no ignition fuse connected at this point....

The orange wire also connects to the signals and lights fuses, and if those fuses are in the holders they will provide a path for the current leak.

[chuckycheese]

More

Without the ignition plugged in, measuring at the "main" fuse connection with no other fuse in place other than the the "power source", reads 1.3 on the 200mV scale...which I think is .26 Volts.

If I plug in the ignition plug, it changes to 3.1 on the same scale...which I think is .62 Volts.

It would seem to me that neither is good but I know very little about it. I would think that the change in current caused by the jiggling of the wires would mean something bad, either way,...but I can't even figure out what that might be. I'm lost!

[Boondocks]

Without the ignition plugged in, measuring at the "main" fuse connection with no other fuse in place other than the the "power source", reads 1.3 on the 200mV scale...which I think is .26 Volts.

If I plug in the ignition plug, it changes to 3.1 on the same scale...which I think is .62 Volts.

It would seem to me that neither is good but I know very little about it. I would think that the change in current caused by the jiggling of the wires would mean something bad, either way,...but I can't even figure out what that might be. I'm lost!

I am trying to have you measure current, not volts. Move the selector on your meter to the 200m setting in the (DC)A (amps) range. We want to measure amps (current flow) in milliamps (thousands of an amp) which is designated as mA, not mV (millivolts - thousands of a volt).

Try it again and report the results.

[chuckycheese]

Ok

OK, I'm gonna try to do as you say. I'm studying my little book and I've got my multimeter in hand...In the morning, I'll get out there and see if I can't give you something better to go on. I would do it now but I don't have a good way to see what I'm doing.

Thank you, Philip!!!:-D :-D :-D

[Boondocks]

Voltage Measurements Are Worthless for Evaluating Battery Drain

To give you an example of what a somewhat normal reading should be, I tested the main fuse on my bike with the ignition off. As might be expected, there is a current drain. How large, you may ask. It happens to be 127?A (microamps: 1 microamp = 1/1000 of a milliamp), or 127 millionths of an amp. Would a current drain this small beget a voltage reading. The answer is: Of course. In this case 1.71V. Does this mean anything: Yes. It means I shouldn't use the voltage scale in the first place if I want to know what's going on with a current drain.

At the volume of that current "drain" (not considering normal battery self-discharge) it would take 12.6 years :-D at an hourly rate to discharge 14 amps (the normal rating of a new battery in ampere hours).

I also measured the "power source" accessory fuse circuit which has a normally always on 5-function digital voltmeter connected. This is what is correctly called a parasitic load, one that is connected on purpose and continues to drain power from the battery when the ignition is turned off. With the fuse removed and the 5-function disconnected, voltage and current across the fuse was 0. With the meter connected, it draws 9mA (9 milliamps, or 9/1000 of an amp). This is a very low current drain, and is nothing to worry about unless the bike were stored for a long time without charging the battery. At the hourly rate of 9mA discharge, it would take 65 days to accumulate 14 amps and totally discharge the battery.

Just for the sport of it, I removed the power source fuse and measured the voltage with the add-on voltmeter connected, which would simulate a low level current drain. The battery had just come off the charger, so had a high voltage surface charge. The reading across the fuse clips was 13.2 volts, almost as high as the battery voltage of 13.6 volts! The moral of this story is, again, the voltage readings basically don't reveal squat. If you want to know if a current drain is serious, use the A-mA (amp-milliamp) current scale, not the voltage scale. If a meter which measures current is not available, a test light will work for most purposes because the brightness of the light is a visual indication of the amount of current going through the circuit.

I would recommend that after you read up on the meter settings that you start over by disconnecting the negative battery terminal and test for current drain, not voltage between the cable and the terminal.

[chuckycheese]

Voltimeter readings

Well, my multimeter has 2 settings for testing DC current...200mA and 10A. I tried both everywhere and got no readings, whatsoever. If I disconnect the battery and measure voltage from the negative battery post to the negative cable, I'm at least able to get a reading there...and it is .9 on the 200mV DC scale.

I know my battery drain is significant because if I fully charge my battery and let it sit unhooked, it will maintain a high charge for a long time. Once I hook it to the bike, it will go dead within about4 hours, or so.

I really appreciate all the time you've spent with me but I'm just about ready to give up (not quite, but I'm getting really close). I think this problem is simply beyond me and I'm also suspecting there may be more than one problem.

[Boondocks]

I assume that you did the current check with all fuses and the ignition plug reconnected, otherwise it's invalid. If your meter is accurate (I would doublecheck with another meter), you are using it properly and you are unable to get any current readings using the 200 mA scale, then the meter is indicating that there is no readable current leak. Your voltage reading of .9 mV (.0009V) is meaningless.

In order for your battery to go from full charge to fully discharged in four hours, using a theoretical example of a new, fully charged 14AH battery, it would have to have a drain of about 3.5 amps, or 45 watts over that time. If something that drastic were happening, you probably would have found it.

When you say that the battery is "dead" after four hours, have you checked the voltage of the battery to confirm it? Do the lights still work? Or does the starter refuse to start it? Depending on the symptoms, it's possible that you could, for example, have a starter problem that allows the bike to start only when it comes right off the charger with extra voltage from the surface charge. After about four hours, the surface charge dissipates and the battery returns to normal lower voltage. If a starter were going bad, it might not work at the normal voltage range.

Try this. Fully charge the battery with all cables connected and read the voltage across the positive and negative terminals. Let the bike sit for four hours and read the voltage again. Report the results.

[tconroy]

I assume that you did the current check with all fuses and the ignition plug reconnected, otherwise it's invalid. If your meter is accurate (I would doublecheck with another meter), you are using it properly and you are unable to get any current readings using the 200 mA scale, then the meter is indicating that there is no readable current leak. Your voltage reading of .9 mV (.0009V) is meaningless.

In order for your battery to go from full charge to fully discharged in four hours, using a theoretical example of a new, fully charged 14AH battery, it would have to have a drain of about 3.5 amps, or 45 watts over that time. If something that drastic were happening, you probably would have found it.

When you say that the battery is "dead" after four hours, have you checked the voltage of the battery to confirm it? Do the lights still work? Or does the starter refuse to start it? Depending on the symptoms, it's possible that you could, for example, have a starter problem that allows the bike to start only when it comes right off the charger with extra voltage from the surface charge. After about four hours, the surface charge dissipates and the battery returns to normal lower voltage. If a starter were going bad, it might not work at the normal voltage range.

Try this. Fully charge the battery with all cables connected and read the voltage across the positive and negative terminals. Let the bike sit for four hours and read the voltage again. Report the results.

I have had batteries show a full charge that were dead as a doornail! I have also bought a battery that tested good till about half the day was over in my boat.I would take the battery in for a load test or find one you know is good.could just have a bad cell.

[chuckycheese]

Bad to worse

Well, things have gone from bad to worse. I charged up the battery, reconnected everything and now when I push the starter button, there is no response. That was never the problem before...only a drained battery.

If this offers any clue.....all the lights work and are very bright, the horn works loudly....everything seems exactly right...except zero response from the starter. I double checked to see that I hooked everything up correctly and tightly and everything looks just fine. I'm sure my battery is still draining. Does it seem likely that I could push start it or wouldn't that work either?

UPDATE: As suggested in the Clymer book, I jumped the 2 posts on the starter relay and the starter turned over just fine!!! I also checked continuity of the starter switch, which also seems just fine.

[Boondocks]

I asked you to fully charge the battery with everything connected and read the voltage then, and again at least four hours later. Did you do this? Instead you say that you are sure that your battery is still draining, but haven't done any tests that confirm it. Bright lights and a loud horn are not symptoms of a dead battery.

Now we are off on a new symptom. Maybe your starter is failing. Maybe you forgot to replace the ignition fuse. Maybe your battery is bad, but I doubt it. Maybe the battery isn't failing. The bike should start if you push it.

From your last edit, it sounds like you may have a bad starter solenoid. I would like to help you but if you don't give me feedback on my requests I won't be able to help.

[chuckycheese]

Sorry

Sorry...I did just as you said but may have failed to report everything. I charged up the battery yesterday and reconnected everything..and let it sit. Over a period of about 5 hours, it went from about 13.3V down to 12.2V. (Disconnected, it will maintain about 12.8 for many more hours than that.)

It was at that point that I recharged the battery on my trickle charger and discovered that the starter wouldn't turn over unless I crossed the terminals on the solenoid. If I do that, it turns over just fine.

I did re-check all the fuses and shuffled them around to make certain they were good..and they are.

In the Suzuki shop manual, they suggest a test for continuity by disconnecting the lead wire that goes to the starter motor, turning on the ignition and checking continuity between the two terminals on the starter replay. I did that (and I think I did it right since it's so simple) and DID NOT get continuity.

[Boondocks]

A good solenoid should make a clicking sound when its internal switch activates the starter. If the solenoid is bad, the OEM versions are spendy. You can get a riding mower solenoid for about $20 from a home & garden center that will work.

If your battery is going down to 12.2V in five hours when connected and will hold a charge at 12.8V disconnected, it would seem that either your meter is inaccurate or you aren't using it right. If this were a battery drain problem, it should be immediately detectable when the negative cable and terminal were tested in series for current flow. Something is wrong with this picture.

It seems more than coincidental that the solenoid would fail when the battery is losing charge. Maybe it was shorting to ground and causing the problem. If it was intermittent the current flow test might not catch it. Try charging the battery to full charge and let it sit 4-5 hours with the solenoid removed from the circuit and see if this stops the drain.

[chuckycheese]

Thanks

Thanks, Philip. I guessed at the things you pointed out and hope you're right. I'm unclear what you meant about the meter readings as the battery drains but it's been a steady downward spiral. I'm simply measuring DC volts between positive and negative battery posts.

I'm hopeful that the problems are all being caused by the starter relay, as you suggest. I'm giving the battery a good trickle charge and will see what happens with everything in place, except the starter relay.8-[

[Boondocks]

...I'm unclear what you meant about the meter readings as the battery drains but it's been a steady downward spiral. I'm simply measuring DC volts between positive and negative battery posts.

Current drain readings are made using the DC A-mA meter scale in series between the negative battery terminal and the negative cable. Battery voltage readings are measured as you indicated.

Another bizarre possibility is that the battery negative post is loose or broken internally. If so, pressure put on the post when the cable is attached might cause the battery to internally self-discharge. Internal shorts are not detected by a current drain test, since the battery itself is defective.

If your battery isn't bad now, it soon will be if you don't find the source of the power loss. Deep discharges are very hard on conventional batteries, and they will lose the ability to hold a full charge if too many deep discharge cycles are experienced. If you had another battery, I would suggest that you use it to see if the results are different.

[chuckycheese]

Battery

Well, we'll see what happens! I haven't let my battery get too drained and I've only been charging it with a trickle charger, so I trust I've done no damage to my battery (which is only about 8 months old and has always seemed good and been well-maintained).

I do think I'll go to Lowe's and try to find a new starter relay that looks compatible. I don't know much about what I've done but, with your help, I think I've ruled a number of things out and limited the number of things it could be.

I've got a good charge on the battery and am monitoring it with the starter relay disconnected and everything else in place. I'll be in touch!!