Sea Foam v. Gumout and other such nonsense...

[bigbadwimp]

Hey all,

First, an unnecessarily long story to put things in context:

My 850GL has been running poor lately. It stalls at idle and while riding it put-puts and lurches (to use the standard vernacular). It seemed to start this right after I changed the oil on Tues.

When I initially checked the plugs 2, 3 & 4 were black while 1 was a glossy black (unburnt fuel?). So I cleaned my carbs as per the GS Carb Cleaning Series and put them back in but the bike runs about the same. Took out plugs and they looked about the same as before. #1 exhaust was merely warm to the touch while the other three were hot as you'd expect. I got a little bit of smoke out of the right muffler as well. So I switched them all around (4 in 1, 3 in 2, 2 in 3 and 1 in 4) and now #1 exhaust gets nice and hot. I now get smoke out of the left exhaust, maybe even a little more than before on the otherside.

I talked to my step-dad about this (who knows his way around a motorcycle) and he said to try and run some carb cleaner such as Gumout through my gas tank to try and clean up any leftover stuff in the engine since the carbs should be nice and clean now. I've already run Sea Foam through the tank and some in the oil (pre-oil change) but he suggested to do it again with a carb cleaner. He also said I might as well get some new plugs while I'm at it.

I guess my first question is rather vague but: Is there anything else I should be looking for as far as what could be causing my poor running bike?

Second question: Are Sea Foam and Gumout two different beasts? If I run Gumout through my tank will it clean other stuff that the Sea Foam didn't get to? This guy recommends a whole bottle of extra strength Gumout. Do you concur?

I guess that's all for the time being. Thanks for your help,

Brett

[t3rmin]

I can't think how an oil change would cause this...

Is one pipe colder/takes longer to warm up? Might just be out-of-sync carbs (as far as running badly). As far as blackended plugs, I'd replace them and see how long it takes to blacken again. Check that your air filter is in good shape (so it's not running rich)...

[Nessism]

Gas treatment chemicals will do you no good what so ever if you cleaned the carbs properly per the GSR instructions. Did you separate the carbs and install new carb O-rings like the instructions say? Even if you didn't, chemicals will not help seal leaking O-rings - particularly those on the rubber intake tube runner pipes. I suggest sticking to the basics and making sure the carbs are properly cleaned and sealed.

[snowbeard]

checked your battery lately? but with the non firing cylinder it could be coils? there was just a thread about that, or look for one of billy ricks' posts about it. did the same wire that was on #1 when it was cold make the swapped pipe cold? if so your wire could be bad, or the plug cap?

air filter, as above, could be dirty.


??? good luck!

[Dave8338]

#1 exhaust was merely warm to the touch while the other three were hot as you'd expect. I got a little bit of smoke out of the right muffler as well. So I switched them all around (4 in 1, 3 in 2, 2 in 3 and 1 in 4) and now #1 exhaust gets nice and hot. I now get smoke out of the left exhaust, maybe even a little more than before on the otherside.

Brett

Sounds like your SMOKE and exhaust temps followed your plug change up. :shock: :?

Try a new set of plugs in the bike and if you did do a full clean, I'll bet someone elses money, your problem will be gone. Sounds like before you cleaned the carbs, you had a fouled plug (to rich, maybe float/seat issues).

NEW PLUGS PLEASE...then retest. Let us know.......

[Guest]

Make sure you have good connections through out the ignition system.

[bigbadwimp]

Updates:

I went ahead and got new plugs while I was out running errands and when I installed them the bike seemed to get a new lease on life. I've only taken a quick jaunt around the neighborhood but I'm about to go out and put some more time on her. I'm skeptic that this is all it needed but for now I'll knock on wood.

Somewhat related: That little knob between carbs 2 & 3 on the lower airbox side of the carbs... does that control idle? The bike still doesn't want to idle and I had messed with that piece while cleaning. Tighten it (clockwise) to increase idle?

[SqDancerLynn1]

Yes it is the idle adj

[BassCliff]

Exitentialism, I can take it or leave it.

Mr. bigbadwimp,

Yes, that's your idle screw. Manual says you should idle about 1050rpm +/- 100rpm. As I was reading through the thread I saw where the symptom followed the plug. But Mr. Dave8338 has a good eye and already handled it.

Forgive me if I've asked this before. Is your airbox sealed up? Both side covers and the top of the air filter cage have good weatherstripping? Very lightly oiled foam air filter (Uni)? No air leaks in carb boots or O-rings? These bikes do not like air leaks in the intake system. You'll never get your carburetors adjusted properly with air leaks in the system. Mr. bwringer has a couple of great tutorials on O-rings and carb syncing on his site.

I run Sea Foam in a tank three or four times a year, just for maintenance. It will help clean your fuel system and keep it clean. It's great stuff, but not a "fix-all". Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[bigbadwimp]

Mr. BassCliff:

Yes I have put weatherstripping on my airbox where you have suggested. While I was buying the plugs I went ahead and ordered a K&N unit to replace it with once it ships in. The old one looked suspect so I'd like to get rid of it.

Thanks for your help everyone. I'll try and get the idle right and hopefully that will be my last problem for a while.

Brett

[Steve]

While I was buying the plugs I went ahead and ordered a K&N unit to replace it with once it ships in.

Did you also get the oil to go with the filter?

These filters rely on a very light coating of oil to help trap the dirt. When you get the oil, also get the cleaner. It's basically just a soapy spray solution, but it works very well.

To clean the filter, I spray with the cleaner, let it soak for a while (several minutes), then take it in to the kitchen sink and spray it with the vegetable sprayer. Not enough pressure there to damage the filter, but cleans it out very nicely. When it's all clean, I take it outside to shake as much water out as possible, then set in front of a fan to dry. Then I apply a light coat of oil and put it back in the bike.

Before you guys ask...yes, my wife is comfortable with me using the kitchen sink like this.
It's stainless steel and I clean it when I am done. 8-[


.

[bigbadwimp]

Steve:

Yeah, I already have the oil and cleaner from another K&N I used to have. If I remember correctly they come pre-oiled but heavily so. Is it still recommended to give it an initial cleaning and oiling out of the box?