running without battery

[79-GS550-L]

Hi everyone,

I'm sorry if this has been covered before. Since my bike has a kickstart as well as an electric starter, I'm wondering if it's possible to get it to run without a battery at all (like a dirt bike). I understand that a large capacitor would be needed in the R/R, I think it would be cool to put one where the starter motor was. The only problem is I hear our bikes won't hold a charge at idle. So is it feasible to rewind the stator to give a higher overall voltage?

Why would I want to do this? I like the kickstart, and the battery just seems like unnecessary weight/space. Also remembering to maintain it properly is a pain. It just seems weird to have a battery in there just to start it with a push button when I have a kick starter!

[Steve]

Well, believe it or not, it does more than just start the bike. :shock:

Like you said, there is not much charging going on at idle speed, so the battery keeps the bike going. A large capacitor might do the trick, but you would have to ensure that it is charged enough when you go to start the bike, as it will need to power the coils to light the plugs. If you were to re-wind the stator to provide enough current at idle speed, it would have to shunt horrendous amounts while singing along at 5,000 rpm. If anything were to happen to the r/r, all that excess would have nowhere to go except through what's left of the electric system. The battery would tend to absorb a lot of that for at least a short while.

The battery is about 10 pounds, and will act as a wonderful capacitor. If all that pesky maintenance bothers you, just get a sealed battery from Batteries Plus or another supplier. That way, when something happens and the bike will not start quite the way it used to, or you hurt your leg on a ride, you don't have to show off how you start the bike with a macho kick, you can humbly push a button and get yourself home. 8-[


.

[paco13]

I tried the capacitor route once on an a single cylinder project bike I had and it was a pain. You had to kick it alot before it would fire. Then the lights would go dim at idle, and the blinkers would'nt blink at idle. So what I ended up doing was using the smallest sealed, (mount in any position) gell cell I believe, 12 volt batt I could find. It juiced up the lights and ignition fine, but didn't need to be big and have all the cranking power since I was doing the cranking.
I can't definitely say it will work on Your GS.

[79-GS550-L]

A friend of mine has an old honda CB750 (74 I think) that has a switch so you can take the raw alternator voltage (before R/R) and pass it right into the points so you can easily kick start it. He said it will run itself just fine with no battery, headlights and all, at idle, but I didn't see for myself as it's no longer in running condition. So that may not be too accurate, but that's where I got that idea from.

Plus, yeah the battery is not heavy, but you can also get rid of the starter, intermediate gear, gear around the alternator I think, the starter relay, and some wiring going up through the headlight and to the handlebars. So it would have cleaned things up a little bit.

But I had no idea you could mount a sealed battery in any orientation! I suppose that makes sense though. In that case, that would really help with my installation. I think I will probably try that. Still, it IS fun to do the macho kick thing...

[hampshirehog]

I converted to running without a battery on a 79 550 using a Boyer Bransden power box I found in a heap of old spares. Try:

http://www.boyerbransden.com/html/products.html

I'm as thick as 2 short planks when it comes to wiring but fortunately I have a mate who knows what's what so he wired it in. He also reckoned that he could manufacture his own box for peanuts using standard electronic parts you can buy on-line.

Bike started and ran fine, lights just went a bit dim on low revs.

Wally

[Steve]

The sealed batteries I have installed have all had a caution against mounting them upside down, but said they would tolerate any other position. :shock:

but you can also get rid of the starter, intermediate gear, gear around the alternator I think, the starter relay, and some wiring going up through the headlight and to the handlebars. So it would have cleaned things up a little bit.

You can remove the starter an all its attending gear, but they are all under covers, so the look does not change. The starter relay is also under a cover, and very little of the wiring going into the headlight shell has to do with the starting mechanism. Only the wires from the starter button and the clutch safety switch, so you have eliminated four small wires out of a bundle of ... what? 30 wires?

Yeah, I know that every pound that you can remove is like getting free horsepower, but removing a great convenience that was already built in to the design seems to be going a bit too far for this old grouch.

Keep up the macho kicking, just don't tell anybody that there is a starter button. 8-[


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[tfb]

When every motorcycle manufacturer in the history of post-stoneage charging systems has seen fit to include a battery, that should be enough to tell us it's a good idea...

[79-GS550-L]

Ok. I guess I won't do that then I still think it would've been a cool idea, but too much trouble to implement (right now). To each their own! I do appreciate the advice & opinions.

Oh and merry Christmas everyone! :-D

[tfb]

Hmm, don't be too discouraged by cynics such as myself!

The other way to look at it is that majorities aren't alway right :-D and you might just get a system minus a battery that is stable and functional and bypasses the 2- or 3- yearly battery-replacement headache!

Have a great New Year yerself. \\/

Cheers,
Mike.