Temperature and Lubrication of the Norton Motorcycle Engine

[Guest]

http://www.nortonclub.com/docs/OilTemp.pdf

It's been at least 48 hours since we've argued about oil. This article is a very quick read. It makes me consider getting an oil cooler and using Mobil 1.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[srsupertrap]

Another interesting article . . . the more information the better. I have seen my highest GS oil temperatures occur after a spirted ride and then getting stuck in stop & go traffic on the way home. My VDO oil temperature normally reads 180F with the pick up in the oil pan but can jump to 280F in minutes and this with the larger Lockhart 700 Oil Cooler.

The Mobil 1 15W-50 was most likely the automotive variety based on the year of the publication. On a personal note, I have used Mobil 15W-50 in my ST1100 since 1996 and know many others from the ST1100 Owners Group have done the same. I would be interested if anyone knows of any horror stories of using Mobil 15W-50 besides an occassional oil leak.

[Nessism]

It makes me consider getting an oil cooler and using Mobil 1.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

Agree! (see, oil threads can bring people together!) \\/

Starting with the second generation UJM models, most of the Japanese bikes came with oil coolers from the factory. Simple fact is that air cooled bikes in the high heat of summer can get pretty darn hot. Hot engine means hot oil, often exceeding the safe operating temperature. Synthetic oils have a higher flash point thus are a good hedge, and keeping the temp down with a cooler is even better.

My question about oil coolers relates to using one on a bike with a low pressure roller crank oiling system; does the pump need to be upgraded in some way if adding a cooler? Wonder what Suzuki did when they added a cooler on the Katana models?

[lurch12_2000]

Interesting reading BassCliff.
No doubt the oil cooler would probably help. Don't know how much hot weather, stop and go riding you do? So Cal right?
I will tell you from owning a couple of Norton Commandos myself, it was a completely different bike than our GSs. It redlined at 6500 rpm, handled so well I used to scrape the rubber completely off the pegs and then scraped the metal off too (this was before collapsible pegs and surprised I lived through my youth to be sitting here writing this !). I always ran 20w-50 Castrol in the Nortons and sometimes straight 50w in the hot summer periods. Every Norton I saw had the 2 exhaust pipes solid blueing at least 4-6 inches down the pipe. They always bogged down from overheating on hot days and extended rides (over 20 miles on a hot day was an extended ride for them!).
The point I'm trying to make is that the Norton was a piece of crap as far as reliability and durability and a poor example for an oil testing article(or maybe a a great example for breaking down an oil for sure). If this article was specifically about the GS1100 (or 850) I would pay more attention whether an oil cooler is worth it.
thanks for the info anyway and let the discussions begin again:-D!!

[bonanzadave]

If you didnt have enough oil info.....

From webBikeWorld....http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-oil/ (lots of oil links)

Motorcycle Lubrication News: Castrol Act-Evo synthetic based motorcycle oil now available for two stroke and four stroke engines; claimed to "form a protective film that clings to your internal engine and transmission parts..." Available in 10w40 and 20w50, meets JASO MA and API SG specs | Repsol oils now available in the U.S.A., distributed by Motorcycle Stuff

Motorcycle Oil Technical Articles: Our advice - don't get obsessed with oil: the best advice you can find is in the owner's manual. Don't try to second-guess the factory! | Mobil 1 Motorcycle Oil FAQ; Mobil claims that Mobil 1 motorcycle oil has "Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation" than for automobiles because cars "require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers" due to emissions regulations and other reasons. See also the Mobil 1 Motorcycle Oil home page with information and links to various motorcycle lubrication products; many motorcyclists claim that Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 is the best motorcycle oil | Very good and detailed FAQ on oil by Mark Lawrence | Motorcycle Oil Filters Exposed! Check out this site with photos and text on disassembled oil filters Is motorcycle-specific oil any better than automobile-specific oil? | "All About Oil" by Castrol covers the basics and has a section on synthetic oil | Lots of chain lube info on the F650 owners site | Article covering various motorcycle oil options (slightly dated); it "seeks to answer questions concerning use of the latest grade of motor oils in motorcycles" | Motorcycle oil vs. automotive oil? Interesting study that claims that "The viscosity of petroleum-based oils, whether designed for auto or motorcycle application, drop at approximately the same rate when used in a motorcycle." and "There is no evidence that motorcycle-specific oils out-perform their automotive counterparts in viscosity retention when used in a motorcycle." Includes reports from scientific tests. | Copy of the 1994 Motorcycle Consumer News oil article comparing motorcycle oil vs. automobile oil viscosity breakdown | The Ducati Monster motorcycle oil FAQ is a good place to learn about oil | Bob Is the Oil Guy has a huge amount of information on motor oil, including comparisons, tests and more

[robertob]

You know, oil technology is only controversial among amateurs like us.

If you're a Tribologist (Lubrication Engineer) you would never consider using a non-synthetic oil in anything.

Even the old "use dino during break-in" rule is no longer relevant.

Good info, good link! Goes to show that if you plan on driving your GS instead of just looking at it you should install an oil cooler. While the specifics may differ, the overall principles are exactly the same.

[SDBuckeye]

oil cooler option?

http://www.nortonclub.com/docs/OilTemp.pdf

....It makes me consider getting an oil cooler and using Mobil 1.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

Hi,
Since we are on the subject of oil coolers, has anyone ever seen this option before from Old Kaw Man?

http://www.oldkawman.com/okndoil.html

Cheers,
Lyle

[robertob]

Hi,
Since we are on the subject of oil coolers, has anyone ever seen this option before from Old Kaw Man?

http://www.oldkawman.com/okndoil.html

Cheers,
Lyle

It won't work exactly that way on our engines because of the oil routing we have, but the rest of his article is helpful.

However, there are a couple of ways you can tap off the oil. The easy way is with a fitting from one of our members in Australia:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=118609

The more difficult way is the way my Derale is fed, which will require some experimentation to find all the right parts:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=118431&highlight=cooler

IMHO I'd just go with Terry's adapter and be happy.

[spyug]

Oil pump and cooler.

My question about oil coolers relates to using one on a bike with a low pressure roller crank oiling system; does the pump need to be upgraded in some way if adding a cooler?

Nessim, I can't speak to GSs specifically but the oil cooler upgrade is a standard mod on the XS650s. The stock pump puts out about 7 psi and no mods are made to it from anything I have read. I have completed the modifications to the routing of the oil passages and fixing of input and outflow connectors in the side case but have not fitted the setup yet. I don't anticipate any issues as many of the guys on the XS forum report many years and thousands of miles of trouble free riding.

I would have to think most bikes of a similar type would work the same way so I can't see why it wouldn't work on the GS.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Spyug.

[salty_monk]

My oil was definitely in a bad way on return from Bruce's last year... around 1900 miles of fairly hard usage in high temps. I didn't notice any real difference until the way home though by which time I'd already done over 1400 miles....

GTX 10-40w

This year I'm going to use 15-40w.

Dan

[renobruce]

My question about oil coolers relates to using one on a bike with a low pressure roller crank oiling system; does the pump need to be upgraded in some way if adding a cooler? Wonder what Suzuki did when they added a cooler on the Katana models?

I don't think the pump needs upgrading. Although the pump is different, my 1150 with the stock oil cooler has the same drive/driven gears (number of teeth) as my 1000. The pumps move alot of oil! You can actually see the supply and return lines "pulse" on my 1000 when you give it some gas.

The pressure readings on my 1000 did not go down when I put the cooler on.