Carbs and Valves

[B Evil]

Ok so I've got a little bit of all I had planned done http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=119734 but I have a couple questions.

I know some of you used a zip tie folded over for adjusting the valves, right? Can someone please explain this to me. I think you were just using it hold the valve open just not sure how exactly. I have a the exhaust and carbs off right now so I'm thinking it might be easier to use the zip tie through the intake or exhaust ports.

Also, someone out there has a spreadsheet for adjusting the valves and figuring out which size you need, right? If I could get a copy it would be greatly appreciated.

And also, I've reassembled the carbs but not the rack yet. How do you bench sync these? I believe its something like 1.5 or 2 turns out on the air mixture screw right? Well ever since I had a wheel fall off my car I've had a habit of over tightening bolts and screw and nuts and what not so do you guys go 1.5 turns out from tight or just finger snug or what? Is there anything else I need to adjust while I have them off the bike before trying to vacuum sync these?

Lastly, any one have a trick to getting the old exhaust gaskets out?

As always thanks for your GSpertise

-Bradley

[Steve]

I know some of you used a zip tie folded over for adjusting the valves, right? Can someone please explain this to me. I think you were just using it hold the valve open just not sure how exactly.

The only time I tried this 'trick', I only bent the large end of the wire tie. After determining your valve clearance, rotate the crank so the cam is pushing a valve open. Looking down the spark plug hole, you can see the open valve. Place the large end of the wire tie so it is just under the edge of the valve. Rotate the engine so the cam lobe is away from the valve. You will now have more room than you will ever need to remove the shim.

Also, someone out there has a spreadsheet for adjusting the valves and figuring out which size you need, right? If I could get a copy it would be greatly appreciated.

That would be me. 8-[
Click on my name to get my e-mail address, send me a request. PMs don't work, I need to reply with an attachment.

And also, I've reassembled the carbs but not the rack yet. How do you bench sync these? I believe its something like 1.5 or 2 turns out on the air mixture screw right? Well ever since I had a wheel fall off my car I've had a habit of over tightening bolts and screw and nuts and what not so do you guys go 1.5 turns out from tight or just finger snug or what? Is there anything else I need to adjust while I have them off the bike before trying to vacuum sync these?

Bench synching the carbs has nothing to do with the idle mixture screws. While you have easy access to the idle mixture screws, go ahead and turn them out two turns from LIGHTLY seated. If you follow your habit of over-tightening, you will break the tips of the screws. :shock:

Had to do a bit of digging to remind myself what bike we ar talking about (hint, hint), but it appears to be an '81 550. To bench sync the carbs, you do need to have the rack assembled, but not on the bike. open the master idle speed adjuster until carb #3 has a gap in the throttle plate that is large enough to put something in. That 'something' needs to be small, like a paper clip. Adjust the idle speed adjuster so there is just a light drag on the paper clip, much like you do when checking the valves. You will see adjuster mechanisms between the carbs, so loosen the locknut, adjust the screw so you have the same amount of drag on carb #2, then carb #1. After doing those two (in that order), do carb #4. Now adjust the master idle screw out to close the throttles back down. I like to close them completely, then back in about a turn or two. When you start the bike, be ready to hit the kill switch if the idle speed is still set too high and the engine races when it starts. Back the idle speed screw out some more and start the engine again. When you have the engine warmed up and are ready to do the vacuum sync, use the same order of adjustment.

Lastly, any one have a trick to getting the old exhaust gaskets out?

Surpisingly, I can't help much with this one. Never had a problem getting them out, but you might try scraping carefully so you don't gouge the aluminum behind the gasket.


.

[catbed]

next time post what bike you have, but basscliff might have a manual on his website and that has the chart in it. but, an easy way to do it is if it's tight, go one shim size down, and if its loose, just go one shim size up. or Steve has one.

and for removing the exhaust gaskets, get a piece of thin metal and stick it in behind it and wedge it out. i got mine out accidentally when i had my head off and i was tapping a stuck bolt with a center punch. it just fell out from the vibrations.

[BassCliff]

Hey howdy hey!

Mr. B Evil,

I'm glad to see that you've been getting the help you need. But I have been remiss in my duties by not giving you the "official" unofficial welcome. Man, I've really been slipping lately. Some of you new guys sneak into the sections I don't often visit, or fly under the radar, and can have 20-somethings posts before I notice. Please accept this welcome with my apologies.

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good can be improved with pictures (not your, your bike)! :grin:

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the garage section via the GSR Hompage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr.

And here are some quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic maintenance needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.

***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html

You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.

And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com

Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm
*************End Quote*************
**********<quote Mr. bwringer>**********
Every GS850 has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting.

It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years.

It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile o-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)

Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)

Valve clearances (more important than most people think)

Carb/airbox boots

Airbox sealing

Air filter sealing

Petcock (install a NEW one)

On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)

On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.

Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
**********<end quote>**********
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer***************
http://denniskirk.com
Put in your bike model and see what they have.

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.

http://oldbikebarn.com seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.

OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

http://www.babbittsonline.com/
Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.

http://bikebandit.com
Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.

http://flatoutmotorcycles.com
Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.

http://alpha-sports.com
Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc.:
http://mcmaster.com
Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.

http://motorcycleseatcovers.com
Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.

http://newenough.com
You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************

Here are a few extra links:

Cycle-Re-Cycle Part 2
http://crc2onlinecatalog.com/

The ever popular Z1 Enterprises
http://www.z1enterprises.com

The Rice Paddy (salvage/used)
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com

Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

[Dave8338]

Lastly, any one have a trick to getting the old exhaust gaskets out?

As always thanks for your GSpertise

-Bradley

I've used a seal puller on another bike and it worked great...

[B Evil]

Steve since you sound so knowledgeable and are probably pretty close, do you mind just coming on over and turning a few bolts? j/k

Thanks for all the useful information and yes you guys are right, it is an 81 550L. Usually I remember to throw that in there but I guess I must have over looked it this time.

Thanks for all the links and the welcome message basscliff even though I've been around for a while. I'm still learning about the bikes right now so I haven't been able to post much assistance of my own. Although every thing that I've read so far has been extremely helpful. Especially the Stator Papers as that was the project last winter.

[B Evil]

I almost forgot, one other question on adjusting the valves. Since there is a range to have the clearance in do I want it to be tight or loose? Which is better?

OK here are some pictures of her since you asked BassCliff. Keep in mind she's a work in process and looks a lot better now than she did before.



But as you can see she's still in pieces



A few here



And a few there



Once she's all back together and cleaned up I'll get some better pictures on here

[Dave8338]

Error on the side of loose...as they'll tighten over time.

[B Evil]

As I'm sure most you guys have noticed I would have had no idea what I'm doing if it weren't for all the information on this website. Not to say I'm a complete idiot but all I really know how to do is tune ups and some routine maintenance and I usually work on cars. Now this may sound idiotic to most you guys but I've never messed around with valves before so

Is there supposed to be a little pool of oil onto the head where the valve shims are? Is there some other problem that needs to be addressed or is this normal?

[BassCliff]

All systems go!

Mr. B Evil,

It's normal to have a little pool of oil around the valve shims. Be sure to oil the new shims before you install them. And put the number on the bottom so that the cam lobe doesn't wear it off. A verneir (electronic digital caliper) is handy for double-checking the shim thickness. Sometimes the markings aren't 100% accurate.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[lurch12_2000]

Is there supposed to be a little pool of oil onto the head where the valve shims are? Is there some other problem that needs to be addressed or is this normal?

A pool of engine oil where each shim and bucket are is normal. When I replaced some of my shims on my GS1100G I completely dipped them in that pool before sliding them in place so as to lubricate and coat them right away when reassembling and starting the bike.

[B Evil]

I am completely surprised how easy this actually is after I started doing it. Even with not knowing where the zip tie goes I still figured it out and am damn glad I didn't spend the extra cash on the tool. However . . . how do you guys get the buckets to spin. A few of them have the little notch under the cam and make it near impossible to get the shim out. I was able to use a little pick tool to spin a couple of them but I can't get it in the notch on one bucket and I'm starting to have fits. Any advice would be helpful?

[lurch12_2000]

I am completely surprised how easy this actually is after I started doing it. Even with not knowing where the zip tie goes I still figured it out and am damn glad I didn't spend the extra cash on the tool. However . . . how do you guys get the buckets to spin. A few of them have the little notch under the cam and make it near impossible to get the shim out. I was able to use a little pick tool to spin a couple of them but I can't get it in the notch on one bucket and I'm starting to have fits. Any advice would be helpful?

If you inserted the zip tie properly to keep the valve open, there should be plenty of play to spin the bucket around to see the notch. I used the flat head screwdriver or the end the tweezer to prod the top edge of the bucket along to spin it. It may take a little longer if you have to spin it 180 degrees. Then the (small) flat head is used to pry the shim up and the tweezers to pull it out.
Maybe too late, but you should measure all the valves before removing anything to get some baseline.

[B Evil]

Well I got all the valves checked and wrote down the shim sizes for next time but I wasn't able to get the feeler gauge in two of valves. Should I just go down a shim size and see if that does it or is there any way to figure out what size I need besides trial and error? Also, one of the valves measured right at .08 but the next size up on the feeler gauge was .10 so should I replace this shim also with one size up just to be safe? At least then, it'd be .03 and wouldn't have to worry about it possibly being .09 right?

[Matchless]

I am completely surprised how easy this actually is after I started doing it. Even with not knowing where the zip tie goes I still figured it out and am damn glad I didn't spend the extra cash on the tool. However . . . how do you guys get the buckets to spin. A few of them have the little notch under the cam and make it near impossible to get the shim out. I was able to use a little pick tool to spin a couple of them but I can't get it in the notch on one bucket and I'm starting to have fits. Any advice would be helpful?

Glad you found the tool helpful. Maybe you downloaded the short procedure here http://www.mediafire.com/?3ptmrhwxzvm on how to use it.

Just push a small flat bladed screwdriver against the side of the cup and turn it until you can hook it into the slot.