Trickle charge woes.

[Guest]

I bought a new battery on the weekend to use up a store gift card from Xmas. I was going to put the battery in the GS and demote the GS battery (new last summer) to the XS. As I'm working on the XS as I'm going to sell it, I plunked the new battery in to get it started.

The XS has a charging issue which I'm now working on. Each time i fired up the bike it would draw down the battery so I was keeping it topped up on the trickle (1.5 amp) charger. I've toped it 3 times since Sunday and after only 4 or 5 hours it would register high 13s each time

Last night the battery was too low to spark the bike so I put it on charge over night. This morning ( 12 hours later) I check voltage and it is only 11.6 volts. With charger still plugged in I test it at the clips and get 11.6 volts. I have a spare brand new charger, plug that in and get same results.

I have left the charger on and now 2.5 hours later the voltage across the poles with charger still attached is 13.25 volts. With charger removed the battery show only 11.8 volts.

I'm running a parallel test with the other charger on the old XS battery and it has run up from 12.3 volts to 13.3 in the same period ( i.e with charger disconnected).

Two questions:
a) Can I assume the new battery likely has a bad cell?
b) Shouldn't the trickle chargers register 12v or better at the clips when not attached to the battery? I moved the chargers to different outlets and get the same 11.6 volts. The household voltage show 119volts at the outlets.

This electical stuff gets confusing.

Any and all help appreciated.

Cheers,
Spyug.

[focus frenzy]

is the new battery a Walmart battery? (would explain the problem)

what kind and or model is the charger? if it is a "smart" charger voltage test without a battery connected are questionable as they are made to self regulate based on battery conditions so not hooked up to a battery reading taken from the leads won't be valid.

[bakalorz]

I bought a new battery on the weekend to use up a store gift card from Xmas. I was going to put the battery in the GS and demote the GS battery (new last summer) to the XS. As I'm working on the XS as I'm going to sell it, I plunked the new battery in to get it started.

The XS has a charging issue which I'm now working on. Each time i fired up the bike it would draw down the battery so I was keeping it topped up on the trickle (1.5 amp) charger. I've toped it 3 times since Sunday and after only 4 or 5 hours it would register high 13s each time

Last night the battery was too low to spark the bike so I put it on charge over night. This morning ( 12 hours later) I check voltage and it is only 11.6 volts. With charger still plugged in I test it at the clips and get 11.6 volts. I have a spare brand new charger, plug that in and get same results.

I have left the charger on and now 2.5 hours later the voltage across the poles with charger still attached is 13.25 volts. With charger removed the battery show only 11.8 volts.

I'm running a parallel test with the other charger on the old XS battery and it has run up from 12.3 volts to 13.3 in the same period ( i.e with charger disconnected).

Two questions:
a) Can I assume the new battery likely has a bad cell?
b) Shouldn't the trickle chargers register 12v or better at the clips when not attached to the battery? I moved the chargers to different outlets and get the same 11.6 volts. The household voltage show 119volts at the outlets.

This electical stuff gets confusing.

Any and all help appreciated.

Cheers,
Spyug.

Your battery sounds bad.
I would guess sulfated rather than bad cell, but bad either way.
It is not at all uncommon that they go bad in storage at the dealers if they are not kept topped up.
(Installed batteries in brand new cars and bikes at the dealers too ... bleah)

http://www.batteryfaq.org/ tells you how to find the date code.

I've sorted through batteries on a shelf to get the newest ...

Try to buy fresh batteries, or ones that YOU add the acid to.
(if you add the acid, the battery is guaranteed fresh)

Some chargers will charge in what could be described as "pulses"
The voltage would look like half sine waves with peaks which are well above 12 volts. Yet the meter's display could average this to 11 volts.
If the voltage (on a reasonably healthy battery) rises when you connect the charger, The charger is probably OK.

Other chargers will try to "sense" the battery and may do wierd things with the voltage till they think they are connected to a good battery.
Again, its what happens to a known good batteries voltage while its being charged that would tell you if the charger is working ok.

[quote=spyug;792050]

[twistedwankel]

Most of the retail batteries are made in China. Does that tell you anything? All the lead for the batteries accidentally got put into kids toys?

I have had bad luck with mass retail batteries being bad from the git go and just take them back. If you get a good one keep it 2-3 years.

[spyug]

Thanks for the replies and information guys I do appreciate it.

The plot thickens somewhat and I don't understand why. I pulled the battery out just before lunch today at about 11.45 am and set it up on the old charger in my basement workshop. Now at about 1.15pm I checked the voltage without the charger attached and it is up to 12.45 volts.

I'm going to leave it on until mid afternoon and see where I'm at. I can't understand why it now appears to be charging out of the bike. When it was in the bike it was only attached to the pos and neg leads and the keys were out so I don't see how there could be any kind of draw on it.

I'm befuddled for sure.

I'll let you know what else transpires today.

Cheers all,
Spyug.

[bakalorz]

Thanks for the replies and information guys I do appreciate it.

The plot thickens somewhat and I don't understand why. I pulled the battery out just before lunch today at about 11.45 am and set it up on the old charger in my basement workshop. Now at about 1.15pm I checked the voltage without the charger attached and it is up to 12.45 volts.

I'm going to leave it on until mid afternoon and see where I'm at. I can't understand why it now appears to be charging out of the bike. When it was in the bike it was only attached to the pos and neg leads and the keys were out so I don't see how there could be any kind of draw on it.

I'm befuddled for sure.

I'll let you know what else transpires today.

Cheers all,
Spyug.

Do you have a R/R with a sense lead attached directly to the battery perhaps ?
Anything else still connected to the battery with the key off.
If you have an "aux" fuse in your fusebox, is there anything connected to it ... this fuse may not be turned off by the key.

[spyug]

Thanks for the further input mr. B.I finally came to the conclusion that the battery was wack. About mid afternoon I checked voltage again and it had only gotten to about 12.6 V. I noticed when I left the multimeter probs on the voltage dropped withing 2 or 3 minutes to 11.2v. I took it back and got a replacement fresh off the shelf without the acid added. I have the acid in and its resting right now showing high 12 volts.

I also have been talking with some of the gurus on the XS board and the feeling about the battery not taking the charge in the bike is that the one of the diodes in the rectifier is bad and allowing the charge to bleed back to the stator. It could be valid as Iknow it is not charging and I do suspect the rectifier ( a used replacement i put in last year).

Tonight I'm going to try and check the rectifier and see what gives.

Thanks for staying with me on this. I'll let you know what else turns up.
Cheers
Spyug

[Zooks]

I had a wonky battery that was doing exactly as you stated. I put it the GS to see what would happen as I knew the GS charged perfectly. I had a feeling it would either die or sort it self out. Sure enough within a week the battery had 'stabilised' and now sits on just under 13 volts all the time. That was a year ago. Batteries are definitely happier when they have a good strong current running through them.

[bakalorz]

[-o<

is the new battery a Walmart battery? (would explain the problem)

what kind and or model is the charger? if it is a "smart" charger voltage test without a battery connected are questionable as they are made to self regulate based on battery conditions so not hooked up to a battery reading taken from the leads won't be valid.

Don't be bustin on my Wal-mart battery. Dems fightin words.

On a more serious note: the cheapest available battery on a properly functioning charging system will give years of service life ... the most expensive, best available battery on a crapped out charging system will provide weeks, maybe days of service life.

And yes I really DO have a Wal-mart Battery \\/

And yes, I really do expect it to last years [-o<

[bakalorz]

And yes, I really do expect it to last years [-o<

Awwww rats ... the little praying smilie thing wont work :?

[bakalorz]

Thanks for the further input mr. B.I finally came to the conclusion that the battery was wack. About mid afternoon I checked voltage again and it had only gotten to about 12.6 V. I noticed when I left the multimeter probs on the voltage dropped withing 2 or 3 minutes to 11.2v. I took it back and got a replacement fresh off the shelf without the acid added. I have the acid in and its resting right now showing high 12 volts.

When I did mine, you were supposed to charge it asfter a few hours for the acid to settle into the pores ... FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT CAME WITH THE BATTERY as closely as possible on that part, and don't wait longer than they say to.
Give your new baby a good start in life .