Igniter V Coils....

[salty_monk]

Well I took the bike apart today for some diagnosis. The spark was weak on number 2 & intermittent on number 3.

Measured ohms on the trigger - 315 or something so that came back good.

Tried the ignitor test with a 1.5V battery (new one & tested good) & nothing on plug 3 or 4. I checked right down to the board that the 1.5V was getting through (other end of the wires where soldered to the board) & it was.

I am getting about a 2 or 1.5 volt voltage drop at the coils against the voltage measured direct at the battery (not good I know but turning it over 1 & 4 have a nice spark.

I then moved onto check out the coils & also cleaned up all the connectors I could find (one near the ignitor with 4 wires & then 2 separate ones the coils plug into).

I pulled off the coil for 2 & 3 & disconnected the wire from the coil.... Number 3 just disintegrated in my hand.. The connection is in pieces & the metal cup inside the coil itself has just dissapeared!
Number 2 was also looking a little "charred" when compared against the other side but nowhere near as bad.


These are 15 month old dyna 3 ohm green coils bought new from Z1. I have matching Dyna "suppression core" wires.


Anyway, I have one OEM coil left over from when I put the Dyna's on so I rigged it up to see what happened.

The ignitor test now still shows nothing but if I run the bike on the started I now get weak sparks on number 2 & on 3. My guess is it would run but I haven't tried yet. (I suppose it could be a weak spark as it's an old coil with dodgy wiring but I think it's unlikely).


So... What's causing the weak spark (guessing ignitor is toast & not amplifying the spark properly) & also would this issue have caused the problem with the coil or maybe Vice versa??

Anyone know what Dyna's warranty is like on coils? That's a 60 dollar coil!

Dan

[chef1366]

Bad news on the coil. Call Z1 (if that's where you got it) and ask for a replacement.
Find where the drop in voltage is coming from to the coils and put on that Dyna S and then we can jet your bike in one hour instead of twelve. :shock:

With powdered toast coil connections now I'm really glad you made it home safe.

[salty_monk]

Sad thing is... I must have had it dialled in a few times in the past with the amount of combinations I've tried but just not known it

What a waste of time, one problem hiding another. Oh well, live & learn.

A very nice man on here is sending me a good ignitor to do a definitive test but I think I may end up with the Dyna S.

Drop in voltage is an interesting one... It must be in that main loom bundle that goes up the spine of the bike, I need to be feeling brave before I start pulling that one apart! The wires have good continuity when I checked them out so I guess it's probably just old wire that needs replacing.

Dan

[LarryA_Texas]

no spark

I'd be very interested in an update on your problem. I just picked up a non-running GS850 and there is no spark at all. To replace the igniter at bike bandit is over $400us. I'm not ready to do that unless I know it's bad. I haven't spent a lot of time on it yet, but I don't know how to tell for sure if the coil is bad or the igniter, or both, or the wiring between. Clymer gives you a test that pretty much combines all of them in one test.

I have all stock components, voltage at the coil is 11.3, vs 12.67 at the battery...on both coils...and the connectors seem to be in reasonable shape.

For the present, I'm stuck.

Thanks

[chef1366]

I'd be very interested in an update on your problem. I just picked up a non-running GS850 and there is no spark at all. To replace the igniter at bike bandit is over $400us. I'm not ready to do that unless I know it's bad. I haven't spent a lot of time on it yet, but I don't know how to tell for sure if the coil is bad or the igniter, or both, or the wiring between. Clymer gives you a test that pretty much combines all of them in one test.

I have all stock components, voltage at the coil is 11.3, vs 12.67 at the battery...on both coils...and the connectors seem to be in reasonable shape.

For the present, I'm stuck.

Thanks

Dyna S

http://www.dynaonline.com/english/sportbike_dynas.htm

[salty_monk]

Dyna S & a new coil appears to have fixed it. Will plumb it in properly tomorrow & give it a test run!

Dan

[doctorgonzo]

You still need that igniter for a test Salty? I was going to send it out this afternoon, but sounds like you have resolved....

I am going to pull the new wires I put on a few days ago. Here is where I am (not to hijack a thread)

Installed a dynajet stage three in the carbs after going to pod filters. It ran rich (sooty plugs) with occasional cylinder drop. I checked the plug wires and one was cracked. They all looked like crap basically. I decided to put on aftermarket coils and new wires. After installation of the aftermarket coils (3 Ohm Dyna, my bike is an 81) I still had marginal at best spark at the plug (and sooty plugs). I checked the coils and it was dropping all the way from 12..5 volts to 8 at the coils... WHAT! This is a brand new wiring harness! I calmed down, and realized the innards of the kill switch or something could be causing the drop, so Saturday I did the Coil Relay mod (now have 12+ at the coils).

This improved the situation. The plugs take a bit longer to soot up, and down around the center electrode, it's now a dark brown rather than black, but over the course of 50 miles or so, they still soot to the point it starts running rough and not wanting to hold an idle.

No I think I made a plug wire mistake. The plug wires I ordered online got backordered and canceled so in a fit of haste I ran down to the local autoparts store (too late for the MC shop). The only "cut to fit" they had were Accel spiral suppression wires. The plug cap was too short of course so I cut them off and replaced with NGK caps that were on the bike (5 Ohm resist) don't think the Accel spiral wires (which aren't copper core) are playing very well with those NGK caps.

Here is where I am in a quandry. I know a leaner jetting probably resolves this, but the dyna jet kits are pretty well proven to hit it right if everything else is right on the bike. Did I make a mistake with those non-copper core auto wires and the NGK caps? Should I get a non-resitor cap? Should I trash the spiral wires and put the resitor cap on a solid copper core wire? Should I get made for my bike suppression wires and trash the resistor cap?

[salty_monk]

Sorry I meant to send you a PM last night & then forgot.... I've pulled all that wiring out now & plumbed in the DYNA S. Just need a road test now!

Thanks again for the offer!

It does sound to me like you have an "add up" of resistances there. I use the Dyna Suppression wires from Z1 but in future will likely go back to copper core & caps (much easier to get off the plugs, save your knuckles!!).

On of the problems I have is with voltage drops so I might have to do that same relay mod when I put the new coil in.

When I took the ignitor out of the equation I gained about 1 volt at the coils. funny as I went to use the plug to get a switched live for the Dyna S & that brought it back down again so I now have a switched live from the rear brake light! I took the kill switch apart & cleaned it up (actually looks quite new) but I am definitely losing volts through there so yours could be the same. The clean up made zero difference. If I take voltage at the plug before the kill switch it's 12v but on the return about 10.5.

Is there an instruction post on that relay mod somewhere?

Cheers,

Dan

[doctorgonzo]

There is an instruction post on the relay mod, just search for coil relay, or relay mod. I had to read it about 10 times and refer to it several times during the job which made it take like 90 minutes instead of the 30 it should. Plus I'm electronically retarded, but after all was said and done, I got it correct and now have the same at the coils as at the battery. The relay cost me 12.99 at autozone. I'm gonna go to the MC shop at lunch and get this plug wire situation straightened out.

[salty_monk]

Thanks & good luck with yours today!

Dan

[chef1366]

Thank JC and Matchless for this

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=121673

[J_C]

Haha, thank matchless. All I did was find more material to help us troubleshoot my problem :-D

Someday I may have to go through and do all of these with the new fusebox and everything. For someone who has some free time and the willpower, there's some great stuff in there.

[doctorgonzo]

Alright, I just got back from the MC dealership (have I mentioned 95% of parts counter guys are idiots!) where I got good ole fashioned 7mm copper core wires. I also picked up 2 new NGK 5 Ohm caps (they only had two in stock). I'm not sure any of mine are bad, but I will test them all and use these to replace any showing more than 5 Ohms resist. I HOPE (oh god I hope) my problem was the combination of the suppression wires and the resistor caps was putting too much resistance in the wire and causing the weak spark, causing the fouling. The next step would be increasing the gap a bit beyond the .8 spec to maybe .9 or 1.0 providing I am now getting a good spark.

[doctorgonzo]

Resistor caps + Supression wires = crappy running bike

25 bucks at the MC shop later for solid copper cores wires I am a much happier rider. Now to play with the gap.