Sudden rapid oil loss...

[achiii]

Hi,

So I used to lurk on this forum a lot, but havent in a while. I ride an 80 450e.

Today I had it let me down on the road for the first time ever. On the highway on my homeward commute, I got stuck in stop and go traffic. I noticed that the oil light was beginning to come on when the engine was at idle. I got off at the next exit, but even by then the light was staying on longer when the engine revved. I parked at the first parking lot and saw all of my oil draining relatively rapidly out onto the tarmac.

Luckily I had a friend nearby who could come pick me up in his pickup and drive me the rest of the way home.

There seemed to be oil everywhere, but most heavily flowing out from somewhere near the shift lever. Can anyone suggest what is most likely to have happened? I can't provide more info now as its too dark out.

Thanks

[Guest]

Shifter shaft seal or the output shaft seal.

[Nessism]

Clutch pushrod seal would be my guess. For some reason there is oil pump pressure behind the clutch pushrod seal on the 450 and when the seal fails, the oil pump dumps major quantities of oil on the ground.

Replacing the seal is easy, just pry the old one out and press in a new one.

Good luck.

[Hoges]

Yep, I'm with chef on that seal being the problem. Just replaced one on a mates 250 and was EASY. Pulled the engine drive sprocket off, removed two small bolts holding a retaining plate, and levered the old one out. Pushed in the new one ($10AUS), and back together and all good. Took about 20 minutes.

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!

Hi Mr. achiii,

On my website (link below) there are a couple of notes about shifter seal replacement in the "Odds and Ends" section. There's lots more GS lovin' there too. Here is your mega-welcome!

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)!

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.

***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Every GS850 [and most other models] has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.

Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:

http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:

http://cycleorings.com/intake.html

You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:

http://cycleorings.com

Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************

Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php

http://www.electrosport.com/

For valve cover and breather gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):

http://www.realgaskets.com

Carolina Cycle
http://www.carolinacycle.com
Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com
MR Cycles
http://www.mrcycles.com
Moto Grid

http://www.motogrid.com

Salvage/Used

http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com

http://www.ozpowersports.com/

If all else fails, try this:

http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/

Used bike buying checklists:

http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html

Lots of good info/pictures here:
http://www.suzukicycles.org

http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki

http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm
Online Clymer manuals:
http://search.ebscohost.com/ Click on "Small Engine Repair" then "Motorcycles". User=library, password=library. Note: This link may not work if you are on a school campus.


Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

Click here to visit BikeCliff's website.

[achiii]

Ok, so when I took a look this morning it was pretty hard to tell where the leak was as there is oil on everything. Any suggestions for tracking down which of the seals mentioned is the specific source? Should I add some oil and let it leak right back out? I have only done extremely minor servicing on the bike myself, so I suspect that this will be beyond my comfort zone of things Im capable of doing myself.

I get all of my motorcycle wrenching done by a mechanic I trust near my job, which is nowhere near my house (65miles), so I cant really take it to get worked on (not to mention he is currently working on the bike I just got to replace the 450). Im feeling quite freaked out about vehicles today as this morning I also had a problem with my car, which I had to drive since the bike is sidelined.

[Nessism]

If you run to a mechanic every time your 28 year old bike has a problem you are going to go broke.

Replacing the seal is easy but getting to it is not. You need to remove the shift lever and then the side cover on the engine. Once you have this off you can start up the engine and look for the leak source. You might have to remove the sprocket to get at the seals - the nut holding the sprocket on is not easy to get off. An air impact wrench will help greatly if you have access to one. Also, you will need an impact driver to get the phillips head screws holding the engine case on - don't even try with a hand held phillips.

Overall, not a hard job but it requires some skill. My suggestion is to start aquiring this skill or continue to pay through the nose for a mechanic to do everything for you.

Good luck.