Trouble getting cylinder block loose

[RyanBiggs]

I originally posted this in another thread, but it was maybe a little more off-topic than I realized, so I'll post it in its own here:

Some of you may remember me from the "Cylinder Head is off, Now What?" post from a couple weeks ago. I finally got some help around and decided it was time to tear in, but I can't get the stinkin' cylinder block loose!

I'm assuming that there are some of those press-fit locating dowels like the ones that locate the head on the cylinders. Perhaps one of you could confirm or deny that, and specify where they are. The Haynes manual mentions something about the front outer studs, but I don't see anything there in the photos. Firm pulls aren't doing it, and there's practically nowhere to hit the thing to tap it off. Moderate taps on the one reinforced area (front top center) didn't seem to be doing much, so I was trying to tap gently with a block of wood and rubber mallet around the base. I got carried away and managed to knock out a chunk of fin, duh. Should have known better, I've seen how brittle these castings are...

Any info/suggestions? Or cosmetic fin repair tips, LOL?! Thanks!

[jpaul]

Use the rubber mallet and give the block a few good hits. Lightly tapping probably isn't going to do it. Just don't hit the fins at an angle and you should be OK. The method I chose to repair the fins was to find a used block without broken fins.

[asetech]

When I pulled my cylinder off a couple of the studs had an accumulation of rust on them. Dont know if this is the same in your case but i would recommend spraying some penetrating lube down by the studs.

[Guest]

Like above the studs can get pretty bad and can be hard to get past.

If you're still trying to break the seal, try this:

Thread the left and right 10mm hex bolts back into the block. now use a claw hammer sort of like a slide hammer. After a few good drags up it should be loose.

[rudy]

If yours is as bad as mine was, you're in for a fun couple days. My studs didn't so much rust, but had a lot of white corrosion on them, probably from aluminum. It was all packed in the holes where the studs are. I hammered on the studs and the cylinder block for 3 days straight. I bought the biggest rubber mallet I could find. In the end, I had to remove the two front center most studs by cutting them with a dremel after I got the block up a little bit. Then I hammered them out of the block individually with a punch. Remove the ends of the studs

The studs are still available from Suzuki for a few bucks each.

[Suzuki_Don]

If yours is as bad as mine was, you're in for a fun couple days. My studs didn't so much rust, but had a lot of white corrosion on them, probably from aluminum. It was all packed in the holes where the studs are. I hammered on the studs and the cylinder block for 3 days straight. I bought the biggest rubber mallet I could find. In the end, I had to remove the two front center most studs by cutting them with a dremel after I got the block up a little bit. Then I hammered them out of the block individually with a punch. Remove the ends of the studs

The studs are still available from Suzuki for a few bucks each.

Yes. But the big problem is getting them out of the crankcase. I tried everything and could not remove mine, so had to leave them in place.

[RyanBiggs]

spchips: I like it! I'll give that a whirl.

I hope my studs aren't as bad as they were for some of you guys! They don't look too bad and I've hit 'em with some lube.

I'll report back after trying the hammer and bolt trick...

[Guest]

I'd use a rubber mallet, heat and squirt PB Blaster down the studs.
The 10mm small head bolt trick scares me when the threads come out with the bolt.

[gearhead13]

You could try turning the engine over, the pistons could push it up
Watch out for the crud that will come loose when it comes off, there is usually built up dirt/sand oil that drops into the crankcase when it comes off.

[RyanBiggs]

Well as luck would have it, the claw on my one claw hammer is too narrow for the bolts (I'm not much of a woodworker!). Maybe that's a good thing - chef1366, you have a point.

Haha well if you turn the engine over, wouldn't there always be pistons pulling down at the same time as others are pushing up? I don't think they'd push hard enough anyhow.

We never did establish whether the cylinder block has locating dowels like the head. In other words, are you saying that if I knock this thing sideways, that's going to be able to knock it loose?

[gearhead13]

Yes, there are locating dowels. bigger ones than the other ones.

[Suzuki_Don]

Thw locating dowels are 13mm, same as the ones in the crankcase.

[RyanBiggs]

OK thanks. So where are the dowels located?

Well, that gets me back to square one on the rubbet mallet question: where do I hit it? There's precious little way to get any force straight up on it without prying on it. Maybe I'll find a bigger hammer and try the claw hammer trick, and hope it comes loose before I get too afraid to pull it any harder. Only way I can think of to get the force in the right direction...

[rcp]

Ryan, have you read through this section of your shop manual yet? There's a couple of reinforced spots that can be used for prying (do not pry against an un-reinforced cooling fin), and indeed, there's a special tool that can help.

I had difficulty getting my cylinders off, as they were bound around the innermost studs. Eventually I had to unscrew those studs (using double nuts), and then I could free the cylinders, although the four unscrewed studs were still trapped in the cylinder by crud.

I would suggest lots of cleaner (parts washerb/brake cleaner/wd40/penetrating lube) down past the studs, and remove those (get yourself a stud remover and breaker bar is double-nutting doens't work). Then judicious strikes (not heavy handed whacks) with a plastic hammer. Then prying in the appropriate areas.

- Richard

[RyanBiggs]

OK cool thanks Richard, I was wondering about that. I was noticing some spots in the center aft edge of the block that look like they might be intended for prying, but I didn't want to try without knowing what I was doing. I take it you are referring to the actual Suzuki shop manual (which I wish I had and didn't know was available) - I have a Haynes manual which is pretty detailed about engine disassembly but is singularly unhelpful here. It just says "Separate the cylinder block from the base gasket, using the technique described for the cylinder head. Once again, levers should not be used." Sounds easy! The "technique" described for the head is just to go at it with a "rawhide" mallet avoiding the fins, and don't use any levers anywhere. They don't even mention the locating dowels on either the head or the block, which to me imply a very different technique than if they didn't exist! Maybe I was just supposed to be smart enough to know some would be there...

I've finally noticed a drawing in the Haynes manual that at least shows where the dowels are, which should help me direct my force. At least I was applying force in the right area when I managed to damage a fin!

So, rcp... how much do I have to bribe you (or what brand of beer should I mail to your house) to get you to scan in that page of the shop manual?!