Kickstand kill switch

[Sandy]

Hi Sandy,
I'm not sure this works in all cases depending upon the side stand angle and how you turn into the stand. Was this something honda did specifically for that purpose? Did you ever test it?

I have ridden away with my side stand down at least a couple of times recently and when I started to lean moderately to the left I was just stood up. Suprisingly the stand just stayed down and remained extended without kicking back. I've never experienced being pole valuted, but not hard to imagine.

Hope to see you at the Shasta Rally. Will be working on the ED Gixxer suspension; working exhaust right now (among other things).
Jim

Yeah, it worked, sort of!! It extended past the end of the stand about an inch, it flexed when on the stand and at lower speeds the rubber would contact the ground first and flip the stand up. I CAREFULLY tried it at higher speeds and it would slam the stand up but because of the force that it went up at it would just pop down again. A guy would have to probably fiddle with the configuration to find something that worked OK. As for Shasta, I'll see you there. Just have to mount some new rubber, otherwise it's good to go. Hopefully there'll be some good roads like the Little Dragon we rode last year and no cops.

[posplayr]

Truth Table.

OK guys, I thing the intended behavior's according to my read of the later model Gixxer manual is shown below. I hope this is unambiguous.

I have conclude that normally the clutch inhibit of the starter solenoid is completely separate from the Neutral switch. Of course this could be added as well.

If you are not an EE type, the truth table allows me do reduce the relationships to Boolean Logic so I could figure out different implementations. As it turns out the equation for the table can be written several ways depending upon the polarity of the switches. Given the combination of switch polarity and DeMorgan's theorem, there are several options to implementation LOGICALLY, and so compound that with electrical implementations and no two will be the same.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_4/chpt_7/8.html

As an example, if:

SideStand UP = 1
Transmission IN NEUTRAL = 1

Then

IGNITION = TRANSMISSION + SIDESTAND

Else if


SideStand DOWN = 1
Transmission IN NEUTRAL = 1

Then

IGNITION = TRANSMISSION + !SIDESTAND

So the logic is basically a LOGICAL OR, but depending upon the NO/NC type of switch fro the kicks stand you may or may not need inversion. In addition the idiot lights that are implemented generally need low side control and possibly isolation from the other leg of the logic.

So bear all this in mind when you are trying to figure out why someone else is making it so complicated and this thread length goes over 100 posts.

Pos

[Agemax]

Truth Table.

OK guys, I thing the intended behavior's according to my read of the later model Gixxer manual is shown below. I hope this is unambiguous.

I have conclude that normally the clutch inhibit of the starter solenoid is completely separate from the Neutral switch. Of course this could be added as well.

If you are not an EE type, the truth table allows me do reduce the relationships to Boolean Logic so I could figure out different implementations. As it turns out the equation for the table can be written several ways depending upon the polarity of the switches. Given the combination of switch polarity and DeMorgan's theorem, there are several options to implementation LOGICALLY, and so compound that with electrical implementations and no two will be the same.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_4/chpt_7/8.html

As an example, if:

SideStand UP = 1
Transmission IN NEUTRAL = 1

Then

IGNITION = TRANSMISSION + SIDESTAND

Else if


SideStand DOWN = 1
Transmission IN NEUTRAL = 1

Then

IGNITION = TRANSMISSION + !SIDESTAND

So the logic is basically a LOGICAL OR, but depending upon the NO/NC type of switch fro the kicks stand you may or may not need inversion. In addition the idiot lights that are implemented generally need low side control and possibly isolation from the other leg of the logic.

So bear all this in mind when you are trying to figure out why someone else is making it so complicated and this thread length goes over 100 posts.

Pos

LOL, ffs just wire up a switch to your kickstand and see if it works or not. then go from there!

[posplayr]

LOL, ffs just wire up a switch to your kickstand and see if it works or not. then go from there!

Sorry Age,

I've been trained

"if you can't make it work on paper FIRST, then there is little hope making it work in real life"

Jim

[tkent02]

Repeat after me, 100 times before each day's ride:

I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.

[Killer2600]

Actually, if you are in neutral you shouldn't need to pull in the clutch. I should amend that. Not on any of my bikes anyway and the ZRX1200 is modern enough. Not sure about the Bandit.

Suzuki's are different, pulling the clutch is always required when starting...I do like Kawasaki's setup though it's pretty trick---ignition and starter safetys with headlight bypass too

[posplayr]

OK been working on the whole enchalada:



Starter will not crank unless:

• either the clutch is in
• or in neutral.

The engine will not run unless :

• either Kick stand is up
• or Kick stand down in Neutral

Solution assumes:

• (Normally Open) Kickstand switch
• Kickstand and Neutral Lights
• Clutch switch (Normally Open)
• Neutral Switch (Normally Open)
• Coil relay Mod

Requires adding:

• One automotive style relay (if you have the Normally Closed Kick stand switch then the relay can be omitted but add an additional diode if there is a kickstand light)
• Two Diodes
• Some wires

More later: gotta get back to work; I will do a retrofit to a GS1100ED where I have all this stuff.

Pos

[Agemax]

OK been working on the whole enchalada:



Starter will not crank unless:

• either the clutch is in
• or in neutral.

The engine will not run unless either:

• Kick stand is up
• Kick stand down in Neutral

Solution assumes:

• (Normally Open) Kickstand switch
• Kickstand and Neutral Lights
• Clutch switch (Normally Open)
• Neutral Switch (Normally Open)
• Coil relay Mod

Requires adding:

• One automotive style relay
• Two Diodes
• Some wires

More later: gotta get back to work; I will do a retrofit to a GS1100ED where I have all this stuff.

Pos

Pos, you do not need to bother about relays and diodes, its simply a matter of splicing the switch into the relevent circuit that he requires to work.
a basic switch will not add any more significant load on the circuit and certainly does not require the use of a relay or a diode.
i have spoken to an electrician at work and shown him this thread and he reckons you are getting way over the top for the problem in hand

[posplayr]

i have spoken to an electrician at work and shown him this thread and he reckons you are getting way over the top for the problem in hand

I'm probably over the top, but I'm pretty sure that given the full requirements the implementation in minimal.

I stated early on that the individual solution that anyone would make, is doing to be very dependent on what functionality is required. The specifics of switches polarity, and number of idiot lights supported each have the possibility of adding more components and circuitry.

At this point I have added the same components as the GSXR OEM solution coupled with a Coil Mod relay to have full capability involving clutch, side stand and neutral including both idiot lights. This is a more sophisticated safety interlock than the 98 GSXR.

Lets see if your friend can figure that out.

Note the first schematic I showed was the minimalist implementation assuming no lights. Only switches and no diodes.

Pos

[tkent02]

Suzuki's are different, pulling the clutch is always required when starting...

Only new Suzukis. Old Suzukis (before 1980) you were expected to know how to ride.

[Killer2600]

Only new Suzukis. Old Suzukis (before 1980) you were expected to know how to ride.

NEW? I wouldn't call a 29 year old bike "NEW"

[robertbarr]

OK been working on the whole enchalada:



Starter will not crank unless:

• either the clutch is in
• or in neutral.

I had to go out to the garage and actually check this on the bike. No matter what, the bike (Bandit, as I mentioned) will not crank without the clutch in. It doesn't matter what gear (or neutral). No clutch, no crank.

Hmmm....

[posplayr]

had to go out to the garage and actually check this on the bike. No matter what, the bike (Bandit, as I mentioned) will not crank without the clutch in. It doesn't matter what gear (or neutral). No clutch, no crank.

That is what is irritating and why most are disconnected. It should crank in neutral no matter what.

[posplayr]

solution moved to a new thread

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=143674