Flat battery - why?

[psyguy]

Any way of checking stator for shorts?

well, dunno, it charges ok over a prolonged period of time (during riding) as long as the headlight is off. i would assume that any problems with the stator would be exposed during such testing?

[pontiacstogo]

could this be a problem with the battery?? the battery is new but it was a cheap chinese product...


any thoughts?

The first step in ANY charging system diagnosis should be a known good battery. Now that you've come this far, bite the bullet and buy a good AGM battery. I'd normally recommend Batterymart's 'Big Crank' series but I'm not sure what your options are for batteries in the land of the long white cloud.

[duaneage]

When I see the words "cheap chinese" along with "battery" I envision a 20 dollar item made from recycled lead. Spend a little more and get a maintenance free battery, they have 3 year warranties.

[psyguy]

before i discard a new battery that cost $90... i'd like to check if it is good as it does come with a 1yr warranty.

what would be the way to check if the battery is ok?

[bonanzadave]

before i discard a new battery that cost $90

I dont know what $90 Kiwi dollars equate to but my battery cost $30 us and has been a solid 14.5vdc all summer long. Duane equipped RR.

[psyguy]

The first step in ANY charging system diagnosis should be a known good battery.

yup, i know, that's what i started with a few months ago, but now running out of ideas on what might be wrong so thought may be a problem with the battery that doesn't show when just checking the voltage (as the voltage stays at 13.5V when battery is fully charged)

not keen on spending money randomly changing parts before i can confirm they are no good

[psyguy]

I dont know what $90 Kiwi dollars equate to

aprox US$55

[KiwiGS]

A quick test, is to check the specific gravity of the cells. Use a hydrometer. Should be between 1.24 and 1.65. They are pretty cheap at supercheap or the like.
Or you could take the battery to an autosparky they should be able to check the specific gravity and give it a load test as well.
Cheers

[Steve]

Not sure it is, but one thing is for certain. When he turns on the headlight switch, the charging situation is bad. Turns it off, the situation is good.

Either the draw is too much as Jim speculated and is a definite possibility, or the circuit is doing something bad.

Possibilities right now (tell me if I missed one)

1. Bad r/r

2. Bad main chassis ground

3. Bad r/r ground or r/r positive (Jim was testing this part)

4. Bad stator to r/r connectors (Jim was testing this part, and Psyguy eliminated the headlight circuit from the r/r loop, which helps)

5. Bad headlight switch (needs cleaned, etc- high resistance)

6. Bad high/low beam switch (see headlight switch)

7. Bad harness or connectors for the headlight (partially indicated by >10% voltage drop)

8. Bad headlight circuit ground (causes high resistance and too high load)

9. Bad bulb or socket (?? not sure about this one, but he's checking just about everything else ??)

10. Anyone have something to add here?


These aren't in any particular order and some have been at least partially tested.

- JC

I have only started reading this since post #81, so I'm sure I have missed a lot, but I do have a couple of questions.
Are all three stator leads directly connected to the r/r?
If not, I would suspect that lead that goes up to the headlight switch or a dead leg in the stator.
I presume that output checks were made on the stator?

I saw some mention of repairing/replacing the headlight switch, but was not sure if it was to repair the headlight connection or the stator wire connection.

.

[psyguy]

steve, post #107 is the current situation. thanks

[psyguy]

A quick test, is to check the specific gravity of the cells. Use a hydrometer. Should be between 1.24 and 1.65. They are pretty cheap at supercheap or the like.
Or you could take the battery to an autosparky they should be able to check the specific gravity and give it a load test as well.
Cheers

thanks kiwigs, i'll do that, probably best to go directly to the sparky where i bought the battery from

[Steve]

steve, post #107 is the current situation. thanks

Thanks, psy, I missed that one.

One way to eliminate the battery as a possible cause:
Remove the battery. (Actually, you only have to remove the positive wire.) Use jumper cables, connect that loose positive wire to your car's battery, connect the negative terminals on the bike and car. You know your car's battery is good, don't you? If you still have falling voltage problems, I don't know what to suggest.

.

[bakalorz]

ok, update...


i connected the new (used) RR i got from duaneage but the problem remains the same:

• charging OK with no load (14.5V)
• charging NOT OK when the headlight is ON (or when i connect a 55W light bulb directly to the battery) - the voltage starts slowly dropping

• all relevant connections are NEW
• RR connected directly to the battery
• stator puts out 85+V at 5000rpm
• all 3 stator phases go directly to the RR
• i would assume that the RR is good but wouldn't mind testing it while hooked off if there is a way to do that?
• the system has been tested with the engine just warmed up from cold as well as during a few hours of riding and the results are the same

could this be a problem with the battery?? the battery is new but it was a cheap chinese product...

any thoughts?

Ok, I just read the whole thread ... wow ...

My impressions, take em for what they're worth.

The battery ... Cheap chinese junk or not, probably not the problem.
My walmart special $30 battery is still fine after 3 years

A cheap battery with a good charging system = years of service
A $$$ battery with a shot charging system = Shot $$$ battery in a few weeks of riding.

The headlight system ... not the problem ... high resistance here would just keep the headlight dim, but actually slightly reduce the load on the charging system.
(although you should eventually fix this so you have a bright headlight, this will not cause the bike not to charge)

What this really sounds like to me is one phase not charging.

My bike acted very like this when I had a phase not charging.
headlight off would charge the battery (actually mine overcharged, because in addition to missing a phase, the regulator didn't regulate),
headlight on and the battery would slowly discharge due to the increased load.

(FWIW ... I rode my bike like this for over a year till I built a R/R ... the battery was shot when I got the bike, and this didn't help it, but it didn't damage anything else ... IF thats your problem, you could probably get away with it as long as you keep the battery charged ... OTOH this advice is only worth what you paid me for it and not one dime more ... So don't YOU ride till you fix it properly)

So what could cause a phase not to charge.

1) shot R/R (especially an open diode if you do the diode tests)
Probably not the case here since you tried two of them

2) Bad Stator
Possible ... you did the 80V tests and it passed, but I didn't read you doing them when the stator is hot.
Its not unusual that a short will be hidden when the stator is cold, but then as it warms up and expands, two pieces of metal that were seperated get pushed together and short out.

3) Bad connections in the wiring connecting the stator to the R/R
Very possible ...
I know you said you replaced connectors, but still ...
This was the cause of one of my charging issues.
On mine one of the bullet connectors did not make good connections.
this almost had me needlessly change my stator.

Where to go from here ...

The first thing to do (its even in my sig) is to replace the bullet connectors on the wiring between the stator legs and the R/R with spade connectors. The construction of bullet connectors just prevents them from making as good a connection (even when new)
Where else do you see anyone using bullet connectors ...
WTF was Suzuki thinking using them at all ...

Check the Stator voltage when hot ...

After that, I guess I'd get a new stator, but before doing that, just replace the stator wiring from where its soldered to the enameled part of the stator all the way to the R/R ... can't hurt and might catch some wierd break in the wire that only shows up when hot, or the wind presses on it, or the moon is in the 3 quadrant of venus, or whatever

[duaneage]

I sent him a set of new bullet connectors, there are new connectors on the wires of the RR. Whatever one feels about bullet connectors these are not damaged or corroded and are in fact new. lobbing them off for different connectors probably won't change anything.

The RR doesn't have any defective components. I tested it before sending it to him.

I would return to the stator as possible source, unless someone else has an idea.

[psyguy]

just want to add that the connections are SPADE conncetors (not bullets) and that i tested the system on several ocassions both cold and hot - and the results were the same.

i'll try steve's idea today with using the car battery for testing and post the results

thanks guys