charging disappointment

**Suzuki_Don** · 07-30-2009, 06:44 AM

Go thru the STATOR PAGES in the "Garage" section of the GSR Home Page. Go through all the tests for the stator methodically, don't miss any steps. I am sure you will find your stator is faulty.

**rustybronco** · 07-30-2009, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by journerr

In May, the shop did a bunch of work on my bike. It included new battery, cables, stator, & R/R . The R/R didn't work so I bought another one. It didn't work, so I bought a Honda unit from duneage. I just installed the Honda R/R 3 days ago (installed it myself & am pretty sure I did it right but also know I could have made a mistake !!). The bike is not charging

.

All of that just to say I love the bike, am not giving up, but sure would like to resolve the charging issue !

Just two things to say here.

(1) if they worked on it, it should be charging just fine. you paid them to fix it, correct? plus they threw a bunch of parts at it...

(2) get a VOM and go through the stator pages.

**rustybronco** · 07-30-2009, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by GS1100GK

1.[snip]and be at least 75volts.
- JC

Caution...
If the stator has been replaced with an aftermarket "Heavy duty" part, the AC voltage may only be around 45-50 volts.

**rustybronco** · 07-30-2009, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by GS1100GK

Really??? Why would a heavy duty have 30% lower output?

Thicker wire=more current. thicker wire=less turns=less voltage in the given space to wind the wire.

**rustybronco** · 07-30-2009, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by GS1100GK

So by "heavy duty" they mean higher output, not more longevity? Would there be any difference noticed after the r/r? Volts should be the same.

What I'm getting at with the Q's is would a HD stator require a larger r/r (higher amps), and how would you know that without removing the stator cover, versus a low output (bad) stator?

"I want to believe"

GK,

A heavy duty wound stator would produce more current but less voltage. longevity I cannot, at this time, comment on.
if the stator is properly wound and the wire insulation is of the proper high temp material, then I would think a HD stator would be totally acceptable.

when the heavier wire is used, without proper insulation, or a near perfect charging system "balance" (current output to current needed) I think one may run into troubles with durability.

I have yet to rewind a stator with heavier wire to test my idea's with, but it is my full intention in the future to do just that.

the HD stator would produce less voltage at lower rpm's, such as when the bike idles, but have more current available for use when needed for grips, vests, lights, radios ect.

in "my" opinion when a HD stator is used, it should be combined with one of the newer FET style R/R's, for better low rpm voltage, then you also should have higher current output available to be used. "again only when needed".

to know if you have a HD stator, you would have to know the bikes history, or inspect the stator...

**journerr** · 07-30-2009, 01:59 PM

Thank you all for the replies.
GS1100GK, JC, THANK YOU !!!! Your reply has given me some renewed focus & energy & direction. I will try to carry out those simple 5 test steps tomorrow (after charging battery tonight as suggested) .

**journerr** · 07-31-2009, 01:19 PM

Just a quickie as I'm flying out the door -- printed off the 5 test steps & ran them today, it seems the battery (new in May) is the culprit !

Will post more later

Thanks for all your help
and encouragement

**journerr** · 08-01-2009, 07:19 PM

GS100GK
Thanks again
My note yesterday was just a quickie as I didn't have more time.

I assumed the battery was the culprit because
a) it was less than 1/2 "full", and once I topped it up with deionized water and then charged it
b) it was only getting about 3v :-o

So, it didn't make any sense (to me) to go any further testing with such a bad battery, so I bought a new one (again).
Today, I was lucky enough to have time & sunshine enough to test the bike in motion

But

it died --- the battery died after the 4th start and 250 kms today.

So, the battery is on charge again tonight, and I will go through the tests next chance I get; probably Monday evening. I will post the numerical test results & any other conclusions here once completed.

For a while today, I became pretty happy

thinking the issue had been dealt with.

Thanks again for your assistance.
Brightest Blessings

**eddiev** · 08-02-2009, 11:21 AM

Would you know if the electrosport stator for an 82 gs1100gl is an HD stator. I always thought my readings were on the low side somewhere around 50-60 v if I remember right. This may explain why.
Thanks.
Eddie V

**reddirtrider** · 08-02-2009, 12:27 PM

A wire moving through a magnetic field induces a current in said wire. The number of turns of wire is proportional to the current - increasing the turns increases the current. If you use heavier gauge wire you probably won't get as many turns on, hence you'll produce less current. That's the theory behind it anyway.

**posplayr** · 08-02-2009, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by reddirtrider

A wire moving through a magnetic field induces a current in said wire. The number of turns of wire is proportional to the current - increasing the turns increases the current. If you use heavier gauge wire you probably won't get as many turns on, hence you'll produce less current. That's the theory behind it anyway.

Don't want to be a nitpicker, but given the context of the conversation

It is the voltage across the turns of wire that increases in proportion to the number of turns. Each turn generates an increase in the amount of voltage.

To determine the power delivered you have to consider both the current and voltage. This is part of the detailed design process of how to get a certain amount of power out of the stator.

Fewer turns would produce lower voltage but with a larger cross section of wire , there is lower resistance and so higher current.

Alternatively smaller wire allows more turns and higher voltage but with more resistance and so there is lower current. Both could produce the same power output as power is:

Power = Current times Voltage
P = I * V

So the primary motor design trade for winding motors is to see how to physically pack the most turns with the most cross sectional area of the wire used. As it turns out the packing density can be maximized using square wire and for high performance applications they do that.

The thinner the wire the more turns but the more resistance in the wire per turn and so less current. That is motor/stator design in a nutshell. Matchless wrote a stator wiring guide where I think some of these factors come out in undestandable terms. See Basscliff's site.

**reddirtrider** · 08-02-2009, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by GS1100GK

I appreciate the extra info. I would expect an HD version to have the same number of windings (same voltage), but use heavier wire (more amps). Don't have any experience to say that's the way it is done, but it seemed logical. Maybe with r/r the system doesn't really care and limited space...

Here is where my practical experience doesn't hold up. I haven't worked on hundreds of bikes like some of the guys here.

I am putting an eye to the Stator Papers and concerned that if someone gets low voltage out of the stator, they will think it is bad when it may just be HD. How do we identify an HD stator?

I want to be sure when telling someone to check the voltage on the stator when troubleshooting a system. ie: stator voltage is equal on all three legs, but only 50v, so pull the cover and see if "super-duper-turbo-stator" is found on it

- JC

- JC

If you're using the same number of turns you'll get the same current output, no matter the wire diameter. Using heavier wire does have benefits if you can fit it on.

When checking the stator voltage it should be connected to the R/R and any voltage present should more dependant on the input impedance of the R/R. You do check them connected - right?

Think of voltage as a pressure and current as the flow (an old water pipe analogy) the stator delivers a current. This current will develop a voltage at the R/R due to a restriction of the flow.

**Matchless** · 08-02-2009, 01:30 PM

When checking the stator voltage it should be connected to the R/R and any voltage present should more dependant on the input impedance of the R/R. You do check them connected - right?

The stator is usually checked when disconnected from the R/R, thus a "no load" check and all three phases must be checked for approximately 80V AC at 5000 RPM.

**posplayr** · 08-02-2009, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Matchless

The stator is usually checked when disconnected from the R/R, thus a "no load" check and all three phases must be checked for approximately 80V AC at 5000 RPM.

What he said

charging disappointment

charging disappointment

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