80' gs1100e first start ups VIDEO wont idle, gas in crank case

[G1100]

what do you guys think?

first start up, idle dies and wont start

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaOMitIB67c

second start up after waiting a minute. wont idle so i rev it eventually cuts out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X0TgeuLU3Q

my 1980 GS1100e running on open exhaust. My battery is no good so i had to jump it off a car battery. before this video was shot the bike would turn over no problem and idle. there were some pops and visible flames from the exhaust pipes when rev'ed higher. progressively with each start the bike would idle less and die out as seen in this video. there seems to be a smell of gas from the crank case when the oil filler hole is opened. I try to run it with the choke on and rev the engine up.

things that im going to do, 1.check plugs, 2. change oil

so where should i go from here?

[Redman]

About gas in oil: Have not left the petcock in PRIme position have you ? (I dont know if an E has a petcock or not).

[G1100]

I just finished cleaning out the gas tank the other day, I left it in the RES position over night then put it in PRI then ON a minute before i started it up. I leave it in RES when i dont start the engine. is this correct?

[G1100]

a few other things to note: this is my first motorcycle so im somewhat new to this. The airbox is off in the videos. I have yet to pull out the spark plugs and inspect them. im not completely sure where the oil level is at although i know the shifter seal leaks. I added a quart of oil.

[Guest]

Gas in the crankcase could mean a bad petcock. It could be letting gas flow no matter what position you have it in.

[rphillips]

Do not add oil if it isn't low. I don't think your bike will run right without the air box. If your "80" 1100E has a res. on the petcock, it's not orig., it should have "on" & "pri" only. Wouldn't change oil till I knew gas was not getting into the crankcase. If it does, your fresh oil is now contaminated. Don't disconnect jumper cables after start-up, charging system may not be charging enough to run the eng. & the battery may be too weak to run eng. Just my opinion.

[Guest]

They don't run/idle well without the airbox/filter. Re. the oil level, check the sight glass that's just behing the rear brake pedal, with the bike either on a center stand, or held upright, if you don't have the stand. Do you have the vacuum hose connected (from tank to carb)?
Your bike is surprisingly quiet, for not having the muffler, or even a tailpipe!

Tony.

[G1100]

oh yeah my "1980" might be a 1981 i forget what year it actually is. would a 1981 have the "RES"? what is RES, by the way? reset, reservoir?

maybe the air box is what it is. i BELIEVE i had the air box on when i had the bike actually idling before the videos. The reason why i had the box off in the videos was to try and charge the battery. I charged the battery over night and it didnt have enough juice to turn over the engine once. with the jumper cables on she will fire up and once the engine is fired up it will run without the jumper cables. I dont think i can run the jumper cables if i do have the airbox on, i think its time to buy a new battery.

I added oil because the bike has been sitting for a month and a half with the shifter seal letting it all leak out.

I believe my petcock might be bad, a small flow of gas would leak out in all three positions when i had the gas tank off the bike

the bike is reasonably quite although in the videos im only gently reving to keep it alive. ive cranked the throttle and it does get LOUD

I'll try it with the air box on when i get home, hopefully this is the problem.

Is the idle screw underneath the carbs in between the two middle ones?
when checking the oil through the sight glass should it be in the middle?

[mriddle]

Res = Reserve .. that is the last little bit of fuel in the tank.

Idea is to run on Run until you get down to a low level, when you feel / hear the engine cutting out you can switch to Reserve and make it to a fuel station.

[G1100]

i tried it with the air box on and it helped a little bit, but it still wont idle. there is a screw knob in the middle underneath the carburetors, i played around with this knob and it seemed like it was setting the idle but then i noticed oily gas being shot back out from the carbs into the air box, onto the battery and down to the ground.

can someone confirm that the screw i was turning for the idle or some sort of fuel mixture screw? the screw is about the size of a dime and has the serrations on the edge similar to a dime and a quarter for grip.

[buckeyemike]

screw knob? more detail. where exactly was it on carbs. Need new petcock or rebuild the one you have. Most say not to rebuild but I have heard others say they have rebuilt many. Your float s could be sticking. but regardless is gas new clean if not dump then fix petcock and then rebuild carbs properly. Then run with airbox with good filter.

[G1100]

alright, i looked up the knob and it is for idle speed adjustment.

now what would make the carbs spit out oily gas back into the air box, enough to spew out and drip onto the battery to the swing arm then to the ground, given this was all in a matter of minutes?

the engine actually started to sound a little rough while running.

[mike_of_bbg]

First of all, it's a bad idea to run a bike w/out full exhaust. Often the mixture from the cylinders is still on fire as it heads out of the exhaust port. The exhaust is not merely for quieting the bike, it's also for FIRE SUPPRESSION! Noticed you said something about flames shooting out. Be safe out there...

Carburetors pull fuel into incoming air using vacuum. Some of that vacuum is created by the Venturi effect that we hear about in fluid mechanics. The rest is actually offered thanks to the restrictions of your air filter, air box, etc. The jet sizes and needle sizes and taper are designed with this in mind. If you remove said restrictions you'll mess with the mixture and it will never run right unless you re-jet and put new needles in to compensate.

Your petcock, if OEM, is vacuum operated. You don't leave it in RES, just leave it ON unless you're low on fuel (in which case you should switch to RES as noted, but don't forget to switch it back to on when you fuel up otherwise you won't have any RES). Fuel should not flow in the ON or RES positions unless vacuum is applied to the petcock vacuum line (vacuum being there b/c the engine is running). That way, you don't have to think about it and run out of fuel in your carbs as you're trying to merge onto the highway. It's a simple and elegant design, but the diaphragms that make this magic happen are only good for so long. If fuel comes out with no vacuum, then your petcock is bad and should be replaced. The PRI position should let fuel flow without running the engine, and that is used to fill your carb float bowls when they may be empty (e.g., first run of the season since you emptied said float bowls when you winterized the bike, right?). Your petcock is also bad if any fuel flows through the vacuum line, regardless of the position. In that case it will dump the fuel right into cylinder #2.

http://www.cycleorings.com/petcock

Why is it spitting this stuff out? Probably because the crankcase is overfull with your fuel/oil mixture. Not sure about your 1100, but there's a window for checking the oil on most GSes on the right hand side (some I guess have a dipstick?). Note that the bike should be on the center stand and on level ground when you check the oil! If you fill to the window on the side stand you're certain to overfill your oil. Addition of gas will further fill the crankcase and thin out the mixture a lot. That thinner mixture will be easier to eject.

Try searching the forums for "gas crankcase" or "gas airbox" and you'll turn up lots of hits. The upshot is that if you're getting lots of gas in your crankcase, you probably have both a bad petcock and poorly seating needle valves in your carbs.

You definitely want to get that fuel/oil mixture out of your crankcase. But remedy the issues that caused it so it won't happen again.

P.S. Just glimpsed your video again and I don't see a center stand - though it could just be old eyes. If you've removed yours, you can just hold the bike in a vertical position while checking the oil (so it's usually a 2-man operation). But it should not be on the side stand! On the side stand you should be able to remove the clutch cover and not spill any oil.