Back off 1/4 or no on head retorque

[posplayr]

Do you agree?
If it already leaks like a sieve on the first tourque what's next?

Wall art

[Agemax]

Do you agree?
If it already leaks like a sieve on the first tourque what's next?

then you either havent torqued it correctly or your head is warped

[Guest]

then you either havent torqued it correctly or your head is warped

You would think but we had the two Bozo's on the job.
All parts were machined and were tourqued properly.
Bad tooling on the MLS GS1100 gaskets at Cometic.
SSSHHHHHH

[Agemax]

You would think but we had the two Bozo's on the job.
All parts were machined and were tourqued properly.
Bad tooling on the MLS GS1100 gaskets at Cometic.
SSSHHHHHH

nothing wrong with my cometic gasket. torqued once at rebuild and not touched since

[posplayr]

nothing wrong with my cometic gasket. torqued once at rebuild and not touched since

Probably only 16V 1100 cylinder oil passage pattern

[Agemax]

Probably only 16V 1100 cylinder oil passage pattern

nope, 8v 1085cc conversion for the GS1000, with APE high volume oil pump

[posplayr]

nope, 8v 1085cc conversion for the GS1000, with APE high volume oil pump

I meant the tooling issue probably only applies to the 16V GS1100. Next possibility is the 1150. Possible but doubtful any of the others. I'm not sure 16V 750 heads/cylinders swap with a 16V 1100/1150.

Apparently your 8V is excempt.

[49er]

Do you agree?
If it already leaks like a sieve on the first tourque what's next?

Bill, if it's leaking like a sieve, a re-torque won't fix it! As Pos has said, it appears that the 4 valve Cometic head gaskets may have a flaw in their design, or tuners have been using the wrong sized gasket for their applications. I don't wish to get too deep into that argument, but it really is up to the engine builder to check the integrity of the mating surfaces and gaskets they use, for correct alignment.

The only time that I would abide by Cometic's suggestion that a re-torque isn't necessary would be if I fitted a MLS base gasket as well. Most times, the base gasket is of paper design which will give during continuous heat cycles, hence the need for re-torquing.

[posplayr]

I don't wish to get too deep into that argument, but it really is up to the engine builder to check the integrity of the mating surfaces and gaskets they use, for correct alignment.

.

Now You really have gone and done it!!!

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Tightening in stages is common practice for cylinder heads. Suzuki doesn't mention this is the service manual though (for the GS1000 anyway).

OK. I keep forgetting we're talking specifically about torquing a head and multiple bolts. Yes, then it's obvious to torque in increments.
I made the mistake of thinking that torquing method involved a single bolt.

[tejasmud]

Torque in increments?

Y'all is just makin this too hard.

Just whip out the handy multi-spindle torque drive machine bench, align the guns and clamp them in place, adjust the torque to the level desired on the computer screen, and press the button. Once all the guns click and the green lights come on for each gun after torque verification, good to go.

Probably what they do in assembly, which made me think.

Would one suppose Suzuki built all these motorcycle engines, installed them into each chassis, took each one of them out for drive for 600 miles, then after returning to the factory did a re-torque of the head bolts?

Naaa......

Or, would it be part of the service involved after someone purchased one of these machines of the showroom floor, and was supposed to bring it in for that initial after the first 600 mile service (or however long) appointment at the dealer?

All original owners have this done, and the mechanics at the dealer actually do this, right?

Errrr.....doubt that approach too….

I bet they "set it and forget it."

Well, given the engineers did their homework in understanding the amount of compression set their gaskets would take under the torque applied to the new bolts and actually temperature cycled the engine in R&D.

Sounds more manufacturable that way.

[49er]

Torque in increments?

Y'all is just makin this too hard.

Just whip out the handy multi-spindle torque drive machine bench, align the guns and clamp them in place, adjust the torque to the level desired on the computer screen, and press the button. Once all the guns click and the green lights come on for each gun after torque verification, good to go.

Probably what they do in assembly, which made me think.

Would one suppose Suzuki built all these motorcycle engines, installed them into each chassis, took each one of them out for drive for 600 miles, then after returning to the factory did a re-torque of the head bolts?

Naaa......

Or, would it be part of the service involved after someone purchased one of these machines of the showroom floor, and was supposed to bring it in for that initial after the first 600 mile service (or however long) appointment at the dealer?

All original owners have this done, and the mechanics at the dealer actually do this, right?

Errrr.....doubt that approach too….

I bet they "set it and forget it."

Well, given the engineers did their homework in understanding the amount of compression set their gaskets would take under the torque applied to the new bolts and actually temperature cycled the engine in R&D.

Sounds more manufacturable that way.

Some truth here.

However, Suzuki R & R would have factored that restricting their GS engines CR to around 8.8-1 to 9 -1 would help to control upper running cylinder pressures and temps. As a consequence, the resultant heat cycles would be less likely to cause severe crushing of the gaskets (head and base). Their OEM composite designed head gaskets are also more forgiving of metal movement during heat cycling.

All heads fitted with composite gaskets, should be re-torqued after ? kms. This figure varies, depending on which school of thought you follow. Some will say after 3-5 heat cycles, which could range over 50 - 2000 kms. These gaskets will give more over the initial heat cycles. The heat cycle method is really important on engines that are running after market, ultra high comp pistons.

The manufacturer did insist that new owners of our GS's, return their bikes to a designated franchised garage for a number of services. The first one was when the head was scheduled for a re-torque. They were pedantic enough about this procedure to the point of negating any warranty if the owner neglected to follow the servicing requirements. I think that speaks volumes of what their R&R people knew.

[Agemax]

i worked for honda in the 80's and not one service involved a head retorque. even any engine that blew for what ever reason that came in for a rebuild was not required to come in for a head retorque to guarantee their warranty on the engine rebuild

[49er]

i worked for honda in the 80's and not one service involved a head retorque. even any engine that blew for what ever reason that came in for a rebuild was not required to come in for a head retorque to guarantee their warranty on the engine rebuild

Honda eh! What were the common reasons for a rebuild, back in the day?

[Agemax]

Honda eh! What were the common reasons for a rebuild, back in the day?

bad valves and failing valve rocker assemblies mainly. plus the odd piston failure. th first v4 750's were in every week lol