Shocks?

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. bubba,

Here's a quote from your "mega-welcome"...

**********Quoted from Mr. Griffin**********
For suspension upgrades, the front end is pretty simple: Progressive brand springs and fresh 15W fork oil. (http://www.mawonline.com has pretty good prices on Progressive products.)

The rear end isn't so simple. Most of these brands are available in 'eye to eye' and 'eye to clevis' configurations, in different lengths for twin shock GS models. The options are arranged in order of price, low to high.

1. $65-$90 Emgo/MDI: Found all over ebay, and at about every vendor on the internet. General consensus of users seems to be that they are ok quality, but very stiffly sprung. Essentially the bare minimum option from stock. (For example, see: http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/rear_shocks.htm)
2. $120 Redwing: Evidently no longer made, they are still available at www.loudfastugly.com (and omarsdtr.com). I've not been able to find anyone who's actually used them, but they appear to be of halfway decent quality.

3. $210-$230 Progressive 12 Series: Lots of information here and all over the web about them. Most people seem happy with them, several different spring weights available. Available at most online retailers. www.denniskirk.com is a vendor I have had great luck with over the years.

4. $218-$270 Hagon Type A: Seem very similar to Progressive 12 series as far as owner satisfaction, quality of construction, and price. Available in the USA at www.davequinnmotorcycles.com

5. $320-$400+ Ikon 76 Series: Generally pretty highly regarded, lots of options available. From what I've read on the internet, they do seem to be more highly regarded than Progressive. Can be found at http://www.ikonsuspensionusa.com/servlet/StoreFront

6. $419-$589 Works Performance Steel Tracker: Very highly regarded, lots of positive reviews around the internet of Works Performance in general. Customer service (including rebuilding any brand of shock) is very highly rated. More info at http://www.worksperformance.com/html/home.html

There are other options available that can be more expensive, including offerings from Works, Ikon, Ohlins. White Brothers, once a powerhouse in the motorcycle industry, has ceased operations.
**********End Quote**********

I'm currently running the Progressive fork springs and a pair of the Emgo/MDI shocks.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[twr1776]

#10 Yesterday, 04:35 PM bubba I see you have the same bike I have. Those springs worked for you then? Did you see a real improvement with them? What are you running on the back?

Bubba, the 11-1107's fork springs are a huge improvement over OEM. On the rears I am running Progressive 4124211C (Reg Duty), 412-4212C (Heavy Duty), and Hagons. If I had to pick one I would go with the 412-4212C (HD). Dennis Kirk has them for $ 215.00 which is a very good deal IMHO. For about $ 300.00 in parts you can upgrade both and it is worth every penny. The GS crowd is "thrifty" but running clapped out OEM springs, shocks, and crappy tires is a recipe for disaster IMHO. Even if you do not push the bike hard how much is the additional safety factor of good suspension and tires worth to you? Cliff's website has the instructions for replacing the fork springs.

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=&store=&catId=&productId=p580858&leafCatId=&mmyId=

They also list these in the 12 Series for your bike but you have to buy the spring seperately from the damper and assemble them. They are slightly more expensive than the 412's but they do have more spring choices available.

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=&store=&catId=&productId=p58338&leafCatId=&mmyId=

[Turtleface]

I can't comment on progressive springs in the front because I haven't done it. My forks were freshly rebuilt when I got the bike, so have hesitated to tear into them just yet. I can say that a fresh set of high quality rear shocks make a MAJOR difference in the way the bike rides. Quite a few of us run the progressive 412 series on the rear. They retain the stock look, and are a good quality shock.

I got bored and bolted up my 12 series last night. HD springs. I wanted to wait and do my forks at the same time, but the remaining supplies for that won't be here until Monday. In any case... WOW. Huge difference. Rear is nice and solid now, no longer sorta bouncy. New shocks are set a notch softer than the old OE units, and they're still firmer. I can only imagine what it'll ride like when I finally get my forks done, and get the suspension set up right.

Which brings me to my main points. The factory suspension on these bikes is woefully inadequate, from the get go. Add 20-30 years of wear and tear, and it quickly becomes worse. The suspension's main job is to keep your tires in contact with the ground, and worn parts inhibit that. Buy the best quality shock you can afford. Fork springs might as well get replaced at the same time. After you get everything in the suspension department working properly, do yourself a favor and see a suspension specialist and have it set up for you. It's fairly easy to do yourself as well, there's a plethora of info on the 'net about setting up motorcycle suspensions of all sorts. After you get it all grogged out, ride it until you run out of money for gas.

I'm going to be writing up a full step-by-step, bolt-by-bolt tutorial for taking apart and rebuilding GS front forks. I'll probably have it complete this weekend, or next. There are a few other tutorials up as well, if you're itching to get started now. Might be worth the wait, some of these guys liked my last write-up pretty well.

[robertkreidler]

Contrary Viewpoint

There's another way to look at this. Some of the roads I like to ride are lumpy and uneven. Now, it's not that I like the roads per se, but I really do enjoy the view. Riding these sort of roads on a bike that is set up for best high speed handling could be more exercise than enjoyment. I have a 77 Corvette that will beat the heck out of you on the 4 miles from the slab to my home, this on a paved road. My 80 GS850 is much more pleasant, flabby springs and all. My main road bike is my 07 Bandit, so as you can see, my criteria aren't too stringent. Yeah, I'm old and slow.
Bob K

[Nessism]

Sorry to be a contrarian again...but I think Suzuki did a fantastic job with the suspension on the GS bikes all things considering. The larger bikes had adjustable damping shocks, which was an industry first (or one of the first) at the time, and the front forks were air adjustable - again, one of the first. Yes, the shocks do wear out but the stockers on both my 850 and 1000 (which has a fair numbers of miles on them) are both still in great shape. The forks on my 1000 hold air just fine after installing new seals, and while I was originally thinking about Progressive springs, I'm going to skip them now. My 850 has Progressive springs and frankly I think they are kind of harsh. They might be perfect for someone heavier, and I don't dislike them per say, only that I don't think they qualify as a necessity for people that are under 200 lbs and willing to deal with adding air to their stock forks.

[doctorgonzo]

I've played with the air on my front Nessism, and without the nifty Suzuki tool I've never been able to get them set evenly. The act of checking the pressure causes you to lose just enough air to throw them out of whack.

[Turtleface]

There's another way to look at this. Some of the roads I like to ride are lumpy and uneven. Now, it's not that I like the roads per se, but I really do enjoy the view. Riding these sort of roads on a bike that is set up for best high speed handling could be more exercise than enjoyment. I have a 77 Corvette that will beat the heck out of you on the 4 miles from the slab to my home, this on a paved road. My 80 GS850 is much more pleasant, flabby springs and all. My main road bike is my 07 Bandit, so as you can see, my criteria aren't too stringent. Yeah, I'm old and slow.
Bob K

What kinda preload and damping are you running on the Bandit? A modern suspension should handle better AND be more supple on the bumps than a worn out GS.

[bubba]

Bubba, the 11-1107's fork springs are a huge improvement over OEM. On the rears I am running Progressive 4124211C (Reg Duty), 412-4212C (Heavy Duty), and Hagons. If I had to pick one I would go with the 412-4212C (HD). Dennis Kirk has them for $ 215.00 which is a very good deal IMHO. For about $ 300.00 in parts you can upgrade both and it is worth every penny. The GS crowd is "thrifty" but running clapped out OEM springs, shocks, and crappy tires is a recipe for disaster IMHO. Even if you do not push the bike hard how much is the additional safety factor of good suspension and tires worth to you? Cliff's website has the instructions for replacing the fork springs.

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=&store=&catId=&productId=p580858&leafCatId=&mmyId=

They also list these in the 12 Series for your bike but you have to buy the spring seperately from the damper and assemble them. They are slightly more expensive than the 412's but they do have more spring choices available.

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...fCatId=&mmyId=

I checked out the pic or your 850. It looks great and very familiar
Anyway, did you need a spacer in the forks for the new springs? If so how long? I did put a set of Progressive springs in my CB 900 and I put new fork seals with 15w oil in my 850 last spring so changing the springs should be a snap.
The Progressives on the rear seems to be a good mid range pick from what I am seeing here. This is exactly what I was after. A lot of input from guys that have actually done what I am asking about and how things turned out. That saves a lot of time and money.
If anyone would like to add anything more please do and thanks very much for all the replies. I could never gotten as far as I have with this bike if it weren't for the help on this site.

[twr1776]

Today 02:58 PM bubba Quote: Anyway, did you need a spacer in the forks for the new springs? If so how long?

As I recall the spacer ended up about 1 3/4" or so, the critical part is to make sure the spacers are exactly the same length and the fork oil is also the same amount for both tubes. The Progressive instructions say to go even with the top of the tube which gives you approx 3/4" of pre-load. I ended up going approx 1/2" out of the tube with the spacer before putting on the cap which made it a touch firmer. I think about 20 - 25% sag from no load to the sag with you on it is what most here try to start with and adjust as needed from there.

Today 10:39 AM robertkreidler Contrary Viewpoint
There's another way to look at this. Some of the roads I like to ride are lumpy and uneven. Now, it's not that I like the roads per se, but I really do enjoy the view. Riding these sort of roads on a bike that is set up for best high speed handling could be more exercise than enjoyment.

Robert, I am not trying to be a smarta** but I will have to be contrary to your contrary opinion. A bike has a very small contact patch between the tire and the road and ANYTHING that slows the suspension response to getting the rubber back on the road (worn shocks or springs) can be dangerous IMHO.

I see a lot of posts that say I do not ride fast, corner hard, etc. so I do not need the upgrades but the one time you have to make an emergency stop and bottom out the front end with loss of braking and/or steering control it might unfortunately be too late to reconsider your options.

Progressive springs can be set up for a softer ride if that is what you want and, yes they do ride somewhat firmer than the OEM's but once you get used to them you will never go back. I have put in many miles chasing BWringer through the gravelly, uneven, patched & pothole infested county roads of Brown County and I would not want to run any of those roads without the upgrades.

[robertkreidler]

Turtleface,
Well, I'm not sure the suspension on the GS is worn out. I do think the Bandit handles better, but I attribute that to tires and wheels. I fooled around with the settings at the rear, but I know I ended up back in the middle for dampening, and I think for preload. I didn't mess with the front, as it didn't do anything squirrelly during panic stops. Imagine this: you're going downhill through an area of road construction. There are these maybe 4 foot high concrete dividers on one side, and an off-camber gravel berm on the other, and then the cable type guard rails. It's a little foggy, and you've got a few cages to your rear, but not too close. suddenly you're not sure you believe it at first, but a Black Bear is coming through the guard rails. You've got no options but brakes, and hope the cage behind you is not on the cell phone. Hammer the brakes!

Happy ending: the bear decided to reverse course, nobody came close to rearending me, the Bandit hauled down in a straight line, didn't bottom the suspension or anything, and my underwear was still pristine.

It wasn't my day, though, really. Down at the bottom of the hill there is an entrance ramp. I'm still on full alert, so I'm watching this cager in a Volvo station wagon, and I can see he's not going to look before he pulls out. I'm looking at the side of this guy's face, and he never moved his head, never saw me or the cages behind me. I rolled off a bit, and all was well. Followed this guy through several miles of road construction, and he slowed down where he should have, and gave some space when he came up on work parties. Probably thinks he's one heck of a safe driver.

I didn't blast the horn at him; better to just manage the situation. But the bottom line is, I did not find the Bandit wanting in any way, so until I become a lot better rider, I'm not going to mess with the bike's suspension much.
Bob K

[robertkreidler]

twr1776,
Well, I don't think my GS's suspension is junk, far from it. As it is, The problem I would have in an emergency stop is the braking, which is pretty bad. I flushed the hydraulics, but I think I need to change the pads, which may well be the originals, for all I know. I need to do that and clean up the wiring connections before I ride anything other than back roads where I live. I bought the bike last summer. It's in decent shape cosmetically, but needs some maintenance. When I drained the oil, I got the distinct impression that the PO wasn't into the maintenance thing. Tires were way old, too. I put a Conti Go! on the front, bike feels much lighter. Probably will put the same thing on the back. I just hate to throw away a tire with that much rubber. Gonna do it, though.
Bob K

[rodm850g]

ahh these rhetorical questions.....

I completed a pretty comprehensive resto on my 79 GS850 this year and was proud of the results til oneday I walked by the old GS...I wiped some surface dust from it and noticed a bit of fork oil on the slider....Well I thought to myself not bad for being 30 years old....so to the fiche I go.....I always enjoy researching parts ......I found that there is a clip on top of the seal that is no longer available....aggravating...but I did some for a friend recently on an old VS1400 and it used a spring clip to keep the seal in place ....more research called for.....I found all the parts needed and a few extra new items like the bleed screw at the bottom of the fork and the seal for it......my dust covers were in good shape after spending a few years shielded by some fork gators....{I reccomed highly to keep rock chips off your fork tubes and it looks cool too}....new seals, washers just everything I needed for both...no sense in doing one and not the other......
The reason for this one nearly got away from me...I like talking about my old GS850 a lot...I did the suspension upgrades a while back...Progressive springs up froont and the real thing the Koni 7610s for the out back duty....and while I was about it new wheel bearings were sourced,front and rear.....The difference is amazing! I ride my old Gs with fellows on much newer bikes and it never ceases to amaze me how well this old bike will stack up against newer bikes.....bood suspension and binders help along the way...also a good s=tate of tune and you can keep up....at pace with about anything......but if a fellow has the spare funds {and who really does these days} its worth the effort to up grade.....Ed I ran a set of the old S&W suspenders way back on another GS I owned in the early 80's myself and found them to be a fine shock...felt bad when they went away.....and believe it or not I agree with you the S&W vrs the Progressive.....
Rodm850g