Need opinions on a clutch shaft oil seal puzzle ???

[psyguy]

oh, i didnt realize you'd have to split the cases to install the right type seal.

make sense now what you're doing. good luck!

[Wallowgreen]

oh, i didnt realize you'd have to split the cases to install the right type seal.

make sense now what you're doing. good luck!

Still not quite sure what you mean by "the right seal" though mate. Neither of the currently available replacement options bear any resemblence to what was originally fitted. So neither of them seem any more "the right seal" than the other. From that point of view it seemed an arbitrary choice as to which way to go based on what I figured would provide the easiest path to a solution.

[psyguy]

i meant "the early production" seal as in the suzuki bulletin table above
PN 09285-06010
www.alpha-sports.com lists it as available

the "lip" they talk about seems to be on the outer edge of the seal so i'm not sure that one needs to split the cases to fit it. the only difference between the early and late crankcases opening for the seals is the provision of the "seat/grove" to adopt the seal lip.

i may be wrong though

[Wallowgreen]

i meant "the early production" seal as in the suzuki bulletin table above
PN 09285-06010
www.alpha-sports.com lists it as available

Yep, knew I could still get these for about $6

the "lip" they talk about seems to be on the outer edge of the seal so i'm not sure that one needs to split the cases to fit it.

No, don't think so, it's toward the inside of the bore. If you look carefully at the picture from the OEM manual I posted, you can see the flange or lip is on the inside of the seal right next to the secondary shaft. Not sure how the retention would be achieved with the lip toward the outside?

the only difference between the early and late crankcases opening for the seals is the provision of the "seat/grove" to adopt the seal lip.

i may be wrong though

Not from what I saw at the dealers. Both early and later style crankcases have the groove to accept the early flanged type seal so that can be used with either. Only the later style case has the bosses for the retaining plate bolts so the later type seal with retainer but without the flange cannot be used with early crankcases - the bosses just aren't there.

I can only figure I must have some bastid child kind of hybrid thing that Suzuki don't want to own up to. I appear to have the later style crankcase with the bosses but with an original seal solution not found on any parts list, in any manual, or any other technical documentation.

Not a total surprise, that's typically how things work out for me

Thanks for the discussion.

Job is done, I'll post up a report when I'm allowed to sit down for 1/2hr. Have to go to Costco now

[Wallowgreen]

Finished

So the job of fitting the replacement seal is done....

First thing we did was figure out how far we needed to drill and tap in order to take the full length of the bolt. We did that using a scrap piece of aluminium stock, and a guess based on measurement of the bolt. We wrapped electrical tape around the drill bit where we wanted to stop and had at it. First couple of attempts the bolt didn't seat down fully but that was ok, we wanted to creep up on the correct depth. Eventually after about four tries we had a depth we were happy with. I measured that depth on the drill bit and compared it how much boss there was. Turns out, the part of the boss visible to us was about double the length we needed to drill to. That was comforting.

Here's a shot of the retainer plate and the OEM bolts to secure it. I got the correct bolts because I figured they would be the best guide on how far I could safely drill into the bosses without going too far.


We offered the plate up to where it was to fit and the bosses were in the correct locations, that was a relief. We marked the boss furthest away from the seal, the other side of the layshaft by holding the plate in the desired position and marking it with a sharpie. A swift tap with a punch to stop the drill wandering and we drilled in with a 2mm drill as a pilot. I was watching the side to side plane and my son was watching the up and down plane to make sure we drilled the hole as perpendicular to the boss as possible. Then we ran a 4mm drill, and finally the 5mm drill for the M6 bolts.



Next came the thread and that posed a bit of a problem because the boss was deep enough in the frame that I couldn't use the T bar handle. Was unsure how to deal with that for a moment but I managed to find a spanner (wrench) to fit fairly well on the square end of the tap. Was very careful starting the tap to make sure it was going in straight but turned out to be more of a concern than a real problem.


When the first hole was ready, we offered the plate up and bolted it down to allow us to swing it up against a lip on the crankcase in the top left hand corner. In that position, we marked the second boss with the sharpie and repeated the process with the punch, drill and tap. All the while I was drilling and tapping, the hole for the seal was covered and a shopvac was running to collect up the cuttings. Wouldn't want any getting inside the seal area.

Next we fitted the seal using some right stuff this time and made sure there was a no gap around the perimeter of the seal and let that sit for about 15 minutes even though we didn't really need to. Then we offered up the plate again and bolted it down.


It does look a little off center but that must be the angle we took the photo from, looking straight on the push rod is centered in the hole in the retaining plate. Nothing else for it, we fired the engine and let it run for about 15 mintues, removed the plate, no leaks. Reinstalled the plate and bent the bolt retaining tabs over, started the engine again and revved it to 7k, let it run for a long time and still no leaks evident. Bolted the cover on and forgot about it, only slight concern is that I might have used too much goop and pushed enough of it in to block the oil port behind. Guess time will tell on that one.

Job's a good 'un, even had time to get the caliper and master cylinder rebuilt and fitted. Front brake is now functional also. Saturday was a productive day.

Hopefully, this will prove a useful experience for anyone coming across a similar kind of problem in the future.

[chef1366]

Good stuff!
It's nice to see the project from start to finish. With a good finish at that!
Way to stick with it.

[Nessism]

Nice work on that retaining plate.

How’s the fit of the new seal into the crankcase halves? Thought there was concern since the seal didn’t fit snuggly into the cases?

[Wallowgreen]

Nice work on that retaining plate.

How’s the fit of the new seal into the crankcase halves? Thought there was concern since the seal didn’t fit snuggly into the cases?

So I wanted an answer to that, even though I got more confident knowing the OD of both old and new type seals were the same, and pressed the un-gooped seal in on the rod as a test. The further it went in, the tighter the fit became. I pushed until it seated and that was pretty much where it was flush with the surface of the crankcase. I tried wiggling it around to judge how much slop was actually there but it felt really pretty tight. Not much lateral play on the rod though so still only an indication but I was hoping the fit on the rod would be tighter than the fit in the hole so I could pull the rod out to the extent of it's travel and the seal would come with it - right? - wrong. I figured it fitted the hole better than the rod because of that. Anyhow, it fitted in so well I couldn't get it out again without having to poke at it. Didn't want to damage it so started the engine and let the oil pressure push it out again for me. Longest part of the job was waiting for the oil level to drop enough again to clean out the bore

[psyguy]

Very good work!
And nice to see the pics, they do tell a thou words