Drive Chain Slack

[DMPLATT]

Chad, first of all I'm NO chain expert. I have been in manufacturing for quite a while. I understand metals and the Thermal expansion. I also understand that these chains go thru some awesome stress. While I DON'T know exactly what the metal is, I'm sure that is is some sort of hardened steel, not sure how hardened. Anyway that sounds like an awful lot of stretch for the short amount of riding. My point is this, if your chain is stretching THAT much with such a short ride, please stop. Don't ride any further. There is something very wrong. I don't want to see you get hurt here. It's just that from experience in metals, you have something very wrong with your set up. Either something on your rear wheel is working loose, or your chain and sprockets are toast.
I bought my GS at the end of may, early june. I had a shaftie before that. I went thru all the threads about chains. Here's what I did. FIrst I checked the slack. I took a tape measure, put it in the center on the swing arm. I then pushed the chain up. I measured about 1 1/2". It's been 6,000 miles later and I have the same amount of slack. Actually, and maybe to the dismay of Earl and Dink, I only "Rough" clean the chain on the bike and then I use Maxima Chain wax. I've NOT had any trouble or "Stretching".

What you are describing is NOT possible as far as metal "Stretching" that far when it gets hot. I'm NOT doubting you, I'm saying you have some severe issues that needs immediate attention. Please don't do any more riding until it's sorted out.

[focus frenzy]

First, let me say this........ SHAFTIES DO RULE!!! I had the pleasure of riding my buddies 82 850G this summer, and the shifting was SOOO much smoother. I can't wait until I can find one of those 92 GS1100G's that had the retro GS look, with 1992 engineering, and was shaft driven!!! That'll be the day man!!!

well you are in luck!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4508254636&category=50028&sspagename=WDVW

[earlfor]

Exactly the point I have been trying to make Dave. With reasonable care and correct set up, there is no reason a chain should require frequent adjustment, vibrate, jerk, whip, or anything else.

Earl

[quote="DMPLATT"]
I bought my GS at the end of may, early june. I had a shaftie before that. I went thru all the threads about chains. Here's what I did. FIrst I checked the slack. I took a tape measure, put it in the center on the swing arm. I then pushed the chain up. I measured about 1 1/2". It's been 6,000 miles later and I have the same amount of slack. Actually, and maybe to the dismay of Earl and Dink, I only "Rough" clean the chain on the bike and then I use Maxima Chain wax. I've NOT had any trouble or "Stretching".

[Jethro]

I cant remember exactly the last time the chain on my 1150 needed adjustment, and I'm pushing about 140 hp through it. Its probably been 3 months. I average 2000 to 3000 miles per month. I have said before, chains do not require pretension to operate correctly. In fact, chains and sprockets last much longer if pretension is kept to a minimum. You cant throw a lightly pretensioned chain because the engine's power is pulling the chain ONTO the sprockets, not trying to throw it off. Downshifting is not a problem if the transition is done smoothly using clutch and throttle. A tight chain eats sprockets, burns up bearings and stretches links. Stretched links acclelerate the wear on sprockets and bearings. Its a vicious circle. I just went into the garage and checked the chain slack on the 1150. Sitting on the centerstand, measuring in the center of the return run, the chain at rest is 3 3/4" off the floor. Pushing the lower run up with my finger, it moves to 5 1/2" off the floor. Therefore, I have
1 3/4" of slack in the chain. Part of that is taken up when I sit on the bike, but since I weigh 160 lbs, not very much. When underway, the chain does not jerk, whip or vibrate. The chain is pulled tight on the top run by the engine. It bows out on the return run by centrifugal force. There is no reason it should jerk, whip, or vibrate. Unless, it has been overtightened causing the links to stretch so they no longer match the sprocket teeth. Or, it has not been kept clean and an accumulation of grit and chain goo is keeping the links from moving freely. Or, overtensioning has worn the sprockets out. Or, overtensioning has caused enough heat build up to boil the lubricant out from around the pins and now the pins are dry and galled.

When a new chain and sprockets are installed, the range of use of the chain is 1 1/2 marks on the rear axle adjuster. That is to say, when the chain is installed and first set (with 1 1/2" of slack on the bottom run) and if the first set up is on the 2nd adjustment mark on the swingarm. The chain is WORN OUT when you reach mark 3.5

If you go for a ride of 100 miles and there is 1" difference in the slack in your chain, it should be in the trash can (along with the sprockets). Too much tension will destroy sprockets and chain in a couple of hundred miles. It is probably the most common mistake made.

Earl

Once again, Earl hits it on the head- perfectly. Thus I feel the need to quote the whole post.

[DMPLATT]

Just a thought here. is it possible that this could be a supsension issue? As Earl stated, at 160lbs when he sits on it, it doesn't move that much. Could you in fact have a "Sticky" suspension that is slowly "Relaxing" back to position over time?

Make any sense?

[earlfor]

Dave, once again you got it right. It is precisely a suspension condition. Its not a "problem", but simply a condition of the geometry of a motorcycle.
As the suspension compresses and releases, the rear sprocket arc changes.
Consequently, the REQUIRED chain length changes. The required chain length also varies with suspension setting, road condition and rider weight on the motorcycle. That is why there is NO exact setting for all motorcyle chains that is correct. The chain will always stretch to accomodate the greatest arc/length normally needed. There is no way youre ever going to wrap 2 feet of chain around a 3 foot circumference sprocket. Thats what those that keep tightening their chain are trying to do. I'm probably going to burn some ears, but what they hell. :-) Had everyone rather spend $200 every month for new chain and sprockets or suffer a couple minutes of burned ears? LOL

The correct way to set up a chain when installing new sprockets and chain is to put the bike on the centerstand. Measure from the floor to the outside edge of the lower run of the chain in the middle of the run.
Lets say that edge is 4 1/2" off the floor. Now, placing a finger in the middle of the lower run of the chain, hold it up as high as you can. Measure that distance from the floor. It MUST be a minimum of 1 1/2" greater as a starting point as a basis for finding the true tension required. The distance (in this example) above the floor should be 6". Even for a light solo rider, that amount of slack is necessary. More will be needed if the rider is heavy, two up riding, or the suspension is set to a soft setting.
Take the bike out for a ride of 100 miles over roads you normally ridden.
Come back and remeasure the the chain heights the same way. Any change in slack will be the new chain "setting" itself to the actual LENGTH REQUIRED. NOTE that amount of slack. That is the CORRECT AMOUNT OF CHAIN TENSION for your bike, setup and riding. Everytime someone keeps tightening the chain, they are NOT LISTENING to what the bike is telling them.

Once you have the the initial chain setting, note the position of the adjustment marks on the swing arm/axle collar. The life of the chain is 1 1/2 marks. After that, it is worn out and will self destruct the sprockets.
Tensioned properly, it will be 15K miles or more before that amount of adjustment is used up. It is rare that I need to adjust my chain and when it do, it is only a matter of about 1/8 of the distance between marks, or about 1/4 turn on the adjuster bolts.

The chain will always relax itself to the length it must have. LEAVE IT ALONE!!

Earl

Just a thought here. is it possible that this could be a supsension issue? As Earl stated, at 160lbs when he sits on it, it doesn't move that much. Could you in fact have a "Sticky" suspension that is slowly "Relaxing" back to position over time?

Make any sense?

[crc1214]

Well, I set that thing to 1 1/2" of slack, and wouldn't you know it...... after about 20 miles of riding the chain DIDN'T stretch as before!!!!!!!! And the shifting was fairly smooth, I'll be damned.

So I was happy. However, I still get a bit of whipping when I decelerate, without the clutch lever depressed. It's weird though........ once I depress the clutch lever, and just coast.......... the whipping is completely gone!!

Wierd. Anyway, thanks for the posts you guys, and educating me on the proper way to adjust a chain!!

I just hope I didn't decrease the life of my brand new sprockets and x-ring chain by that much over the past 60 miles or so of abuse!!!

[Anonymous]

PRELOAD THE ADJUSTMENT BOLTS........DINK, EARL?

Guys:

When I used to set my chain for about 3/4 in to 1 in slack.

Steps 6, 7, 10 and 13 are important. (and the cotter pin) I have heard no one mention preloading the adjustment bolts. dink? earl?

1) loosen wheel nut (big one) on the AXEL
2) loosen adjusting bolt locknuts (12 mm nuts?
3) assure wheel is adjusted evenely both sides (pick your method)
4) Loosen adjusting bolts evenly and push the tire forward against the bolts.
5) Recheck even-ness.
6) Tighten the MAIN axel bolt - snug but not tight. This just holds the wheel in place so it doesn't move around.
7 Set tire rotation to find tightest chain point. Do it. New parts should have no "tight" point but most readjustments will have one. This is your "worst case tension point. Look for about 1 inch deflection. (on center stand)
8) Too tight? Loosen the main axel bolt. Loosen the adjuster bolts EVENLY and POP the rear tire forward. Careful - don't knock bike off centerstand.
9) Repeat step 6 & 7
10) Too loose then tighten adjusting bolts evenly - I rotate them in 90 degree increments and recheck chain. Axel bolt is NOT loose - just maybe torqued to about 5 ft lbs to keep it steady.
11) Repeat 10 until at 1 inch deflection at tightest point.
12) Torque main axel shaft to full torque - after rechecking if even on both sides.
13) Tighten adjustment bolts about 1/4 turn or until firm. This preloads the adjustment bolts so setting doesn't change (your problem)
14 Tighten lock nuts on the adjustment bolts.
15) make sure your cotter pin is in on the main axel bolt.
8)
8)

[earlfor]

Glad to hear youre getting over your case of the "stretchies". LOL

Smoothing out the shifting is likely only a matter of your getting used to the chain setting and adjusting your clutch useage. Generally, a tad more feathering and a smoother blending with throttle will solve that.

I suspect the whipping you are experiencing is a result of not applying the front brake and rear brake in an amount that results in the front and rear wheels stopping at the same time/rate. With the clutch in and coasting, you dont have any whipping and its smooth, so it isnt the chain or sprockets. The whip is due to the unequal deacceleration. One more reason to, as a matter of habit, use both brakes and apply them evenly.

You will be able to feel the difference in handling when the brakes are balanced front and rear. The clutch and throttle coordination are the same way. Just listen to the bike. It will tell you.

Earl

Well, I set that thing to 1 1/2" of slack, and wouldn't you know it...... after about 20 miles of riding the chain DIDN'T stretch as before!!!!!!!! And the shifting was fairly smooth, I'll be damned.

So I was happy. However, I still get a bit of whipping when I decelerate, without the clutch lever depressed. It's weird though........ once I depress the clutch lever, and just coast.......... the whipping is completely gone!!

Wierd. Anyway, thanks for the posts you guys, and educating me on the proper way to adjust a chain!!

I just hope I didn't decrease the life of my brand new sprockets and x-ring chain by that much over the past 60 miles or so of abuse!!!

[earlfor]

Re: PRELOAD THE ADJUSTMENT BOLTS........DINK, EARL?

I guess I'm lazy. I dont preload the adjustment bolts. I usually turn the bolts all the way out to allow the wheel/axle to be pushed full forward. Axle nut loosened. I install the chain. (I use a clip master link.....more on that in a minute. ) Once the chain is installed and linked, I grab the rim with both hands and yank it rearward. Then I look at the adjuster marks on each side of the axle. I turn the adjusters in with my fingers until the marks are the same on both sides. Then I measure chain slack.
If I still have excess slack, I turn the adjusters with my fingers until I have the slack I want. (I dont usually need a wrench to do this) When the chain is set to the tension I want, I turn the jamb nuts down on the tensioner bolts so the axle cannot move. Next, I tighten the axle nut and install the cotter pin. Then I snug the jamb nuts on the adjuster bolts down using a wrench.

Clip master links................
They spring into place and lock. I only install a master link and clip ONCE.
If I remove it, I replace it with a new master link and clip. The reason is every time a clip is "snapped" open, some of its "spring" is used up. Old clips will not be as secure as a new one. "O" ring chains are manufactured with the lubricant sealed internally onto the pins by the "O" rings. Master links also need to have an internal coating of lubricant or the pins will burn and gall quickly. That will eventually result in link failure. I coat the masterlink pins with high temp moly base anti seize. Always coat the link pins and always use a new master link. You will not have to worry about throwing a master.

Earl


[quote="Tony Dieter"]Guys:

When I used to set my chain for about 3/4 in to 1 in slack.

Steps 6, 7, 10 and 13 are important. (and the cotter pin) I have heard no one mention preloading the adjustment bolts. dink? earl?

[Anonymous]

Chain Masterlink installation tips

Hi Earl...


The "clip" I was referring to was the axle bolt circlip for the castle nut....however

Chain masterlinks - CIRCLIPS INSTALLATION: Good tips here....

If you put on the master link - the side plate is a press fit.

1) Press it on evenly
2) Insert the circlip AND make sure the open end of the circlip faces physically the front of the bike or BACKWARDS in the direction of rotation so something doesn't knock it off while spinning......
3) Make sure after the circlip is attached, that you back off on the press fit of the link side plate. This presses the plate against the circlip and helps to hold it in place. It eliminates vibration - which has caused more than a few circlips to either chip or come off on me. Never a problem when I preload the plate.
4) Wipe off the grease around the circlip and side plate (on the outside) and smear a little silicone rubber on the circlip. (actually - after preloading the side plate - I never had any more circlips come off.
5) When putting on the chain master link circlip, put the sharp edge of the circlip facing out. Yep they stamp the circlips out of a sheet of metal. The sharp edge should face out. - Dieter "Now is the time we gets up and dance"

[Detman101]

Re: Chain Masterlink installation tips

Chain masterlinks - CIRCLIPS INSTALLATION: Good tips here....

If you put on the master link - the side plate is a press fit.

1) Press it on evenly
2) Insert the circlip AND make sure the open end of the circlip faces physically the front of the bike or BACKWARDS in the direction of rotation so something doesn't knock it off while spinning......
3) Make sure after the circlip is attached, that you back off on the press fit of the link side plate. This presses the plate against the circlip and helps to hold it in place. It eliminates vibration - which has caused more than a few circlips to either chip or come off on me. Never a problem when I preload the plate.
4) Wipe off the grease around the circlip and side plate (on the outside) and smear a little silicone rubber on the circlip. (actually - after preloading the side plate - I never had any more circlips come off.
5) When putting on the chain master link circlip, put the sharp edge of the circlip facing out. Yep they stamp the circlips out of a sheet of metal. The sharp edge should face out. - Dieter "Now is the time we gets up and dance"

Are you talking about connecting the chain at the top of the run or the bottom of the run when applying the master link. Because if you put the master link circlip on the direction it faces according to your directions is going to be different depending on what run of the chain you put it at.

I'm confused. You mean like this?

http://www.supload.com/pictures/like_this.jpg

[beby99]

D-man....your picture is backwards, the round end of clip points
in direction of chain travel.

[Detman101]

Thats what I was thinking. But you mean when it's on the top run of the chain right?

Like how I drew it, just with the clip reversed....right?

[beby99]

Thats correct. If its on the top, should look like this. <--- C