starting issues

[luc8421]

Alright, I've got this bike running well and it's a blast to drive, it's just still unreliable to start.
it'll start great with a fully charged battery, or with the charger hooked up (slap me now) The battery does charge, but could someone tell me the voltages it should be at with key off, on, cranking, idling, and revved?
it's got a 4 into 1 pipe and pod filters, with the stage 3 jet kit.
The one other thing that helps to get it started is to pull off one or two of the pod filters and place my hand over the hole. at this point it sucks my hand in and out a little, and pulls a lot of gas into the engine, and it starts after a little bit, the choke doesn't seem to help much on or off. It just seems like I need more restrictive pod filters.
Anyways, this is all good and great, but I obviously can't keep charging it all the time, and the 2nd method soaks my palm in gas.
I'm running the needles reasonably rich, no significant popping though, would richening help?
I also haven't syncronized them, is that going to help?
Thanks for any help

[Wingnut]

A fully charged battery should read about 12.5 volts with the key off. With the engine running at about 4000 RPM's the battery terminals should read about 14 volts. That is really all you need to know.

Putting your hand over the carb inlet is similar to using the choke. Did you check the choke linkage for full travel. If the chokes do not actuate all the way it could cause this problem. But you confuse me when you say it starts right up with a fully charged battery. That should always be the conditon for start shouldn't it?

[luc8421]

the choke definetly pulls the plungers out, does it not do anything if it's not on all the way?

[Wingnut]

The choke may not enrichen the mixture enough if the plungers are not all the way out. Make sure they are going full travel. Is there any free play in the choke cable? There should only be a little. The plungers should start moving after only a little bit of choke lever movement. You should be able to adjust the cable to obtain this.

You didn't really say, is the bike hard to start only when cold, or is it hard to start when hot also? With a hot engine, and if it has been just shut of for five minutes or so the choke should not be required. If the engine is hot, and you need to choke it to get it started then there are some more issues here. Also if the engine is hot, does it turn over with the starter or do you have to jump it? Need some more details if you can.

I also am suspecting low compression but not sure from what you have said. Take a compression test and let us know. I suspect the valves need adjusting.

[luc8421]

I don't have the knowledge of how to do a compression test, much less the tools to do it. once it's been started, it doesn't require and choke, and while it's still warm, it'll start with out any jumping or starter fluid. It's just when it's cold that it doesn't seem to be getting enough fuel. I'll see about adjusting the choke cable and report back

[moto_dan]

Your choke(actually an enrichening) circuit could be clogged on one or more of your carbs even though the chock mechanically operates. A quick check of your choke circuit would be to activate the choke while engine is running and notice any difference in the rpms. No or little difference could mean the jets in the circuit are clogged which would require cleaning of that circuit. Good luck.

[focus frenzy]

Your choke(actually an enrichening) circuit could be clogged on one or more of your carbs even though the chock mechanically operates. A quick check of your choke circuit would be to activate the choke while engine is running and notice any difference in the rpms. No or little difference could mean the jets in the circuit are clogged which would require cleaning of that circuit. Good luck.

sorry Dan, but the fuel passages clog, the air passage for the choke typically doesn't, so it will still flow air and effect the idle speed.

I would recommend making sure the choke cable is adjusted correctly, and also turning in the bleed air screws a quarter to half turn.

[luc8421]

if the bike is warmed up and idleing between 1000 and 1500 rpm, the choke will raise the rpms to about 3-4k. any reving with the throttle with the choke engaged, and the engine dogs at rpms higher than 4000, obviously because it's too rich.

After the bike was completely warmed up, the #4 exhaust pipe was cold enough to grab, probably about 80-90 degrees. After some trouble shooting with the butterfly valve of that cylinder, I found out that at idle it was only running on 3 cylinders, which would explain my starting difficulties. I'm going to try syncing the carbs today, so hopefully that'll help, I'll report back when I'm done

[luc8421]

Ok, so I tried syncing the carbs today, I could get 2,3 and 4 relatively tuned, reading about 28-36 on my motion pro, but the #1 carb would not go above 4-8. This is all between 1250 and 2000 rpms. the other difference with #1 is that the large cylinder connected to the diaphram, which you can see through the air intake, is traveling about 1/2 a centimeter up and down, while the other three are hardly moving at all.
I recently replaced all the intake and carb o-rings, and cleaned out all the carbs as well. I can't think what would cause this low vacuum reading and what would make the cylinder hop up and down like it is, any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[moto_dan]

Your choke(actually an enrichening) circuit could be clogged on one or more of your carbs even though the chock mechanically operates. A quick check of your choke circuit would be to activate the choke while engine is running and notice any difference in the rpms. No or little difference could mean the jets in the circuit are clogged which would require cleaning of that circuit. Good luck.

sorry Dan, but the fuel passages clog, the air passage for the choke typically doesn't, so it will still flow air and effect the idle speed.

I would recommend making sure the choke cable is adjusted correctly, and also turning in the bleed air screws a quarter to half turn.

I never thought about the air passages in the choke circuit causing a change in the RPM's..... :? Thanks for the edumacation

[luc8421]

after I do a valve adjustment, which will besides the few hours of work will be free (sorry shim users), I am planning on doing a compression check, but I am wondering how I would go about doing this. is it like a carb sync, in that all cylinders are tested at once? I've never done this before, so I'm sorry if this seems a little amatuer

[moto_dan]

after I do a valve adjustment, which will besides the few hours of work will be free (sorry shim users), I am planning on doing a compression check, but I am wondering how I would go about doing this. is it like a carb sync, in that all cylinders are tested at once? I've never done this before, so I'm sorry if this seems a little amatuer

One cylinder at a time. Your manual should give you the procedure.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Ok, so I tried syncing the carbs today, I could get 2,3 and 4 relatively tuned, reading about 28-36 on my motion pro, but the #1 carb would not go above 4-8. This is all between 1250 and 2000 rpms. the other difference with #1 is that the large cylinder connected to the diaphram, which you can see through the air intake, is traveling about 1/2 a centimeter up and down, while the other three are hardly moving at all.
I recently replaced all the intake and carb o-rings, and cleaned out all the carbs as well. I can't think what would cause this low vacuum reading and what would make the cylinder hop up and down like it is, any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Could be a damaged diaphragm or the diaphragm/spring assembly isn't right or seated right.