1983 GS1100ED Refurb turned Restore ???

[posplayr]

Hey Bill

Yea, I know you will out run me, so I was thinking about the 1166 kit,..... then some more head work ...... I would never make it to Yosemite that way.

I probably do need some help but I expect to have the engine in one piece by the weekend. The parts are all lying on the garage floor.

With some of the recent surprises like
* wrong ID on front wheel bearings found after installation
* wrong sintered front brake pads
* folded oil ring



I guess all in all I lucked out. After stuffing this ring in and folding it under, I also got the rear cam tensioner out of alignment because I did not realize it was NOT self aligning. After debating having the chain barely hanging on and having the head full torqued down with installed cam (but not degreed or even valves adjusted), I decided to take the head back off to move the tensioned. After getting the head off realized to remove the tensioner (I thought I needed to), I pulled the entire cylinder back off and found the ring bent over :shock:.
I have a new base gasket and 1 ring set to re install. I just need to do a little re hone, re clean of the cylinder and go for it again. This time I'm going to make a ring compressor out of hose clamps and some thin aluminum plate.
You better see how the paint turns out on mine before you go wanting to trade work. I'm just hoping to simply approach Nissism's work. However, I know I need to hit you up for some carb work. Not gonna touch them this round; maybe some balancing but no re jetting till other things are settled. They were pretty close before based on PO's efforts.

Jim

[chef1366]

Remind me what carbs you are running? Or intend to.

[TheCafeKid]

Yea, I know you will out run me, so I was thinking about the 1166 kit,..... then some more head work ...... I would never make it to Yosemite that way.

I probably do need some help but I expect to have the engine in one piece by the weekend. The parts are all lying on the garage floor.

With some of the recent surprises like
* wrong ID on front wheel bearings found after installation
* wrong sintered front brake pads
* folded oil ring



I guess all in all I lucked out. After stuffing this ring in and folding it under, I also got the rear cam tensioner out of alignment because I did not realize it was NOT self aligning. After debating having the chain barely hanging on and having the head full torqued down with installed cam (but not degreed or even valves adjusted), I decided to take the head back off to move the tensioned. After getting the head off realized to remove the tensioner (I thought I needed to), I pulled the entire cylinder back off and found the ring bent over :shock:.
I have a new base gasket and 1 ring set to re install. I just need to do a little re hone, re clean of the cylinder and go for it again. This time I'm going to make a ring compressor out of hose clamps and some thin aluminum plate.
You better see how the paint turns out on mine before you go wanting to trade work. I'm just hoping to simply approach Nissism's work. However, I know I need to hit you up for some carb work. Not gonna touch them this round; maybe some balancing but no re jetting till other things are settled. They were pretty close before based on PO's efforts.

Jim

POS The bike is looking FANTASTIC so far. I early on, tried to have that attention to detail that you are sooo keen with on my cafe project. I started out well, but as pressure built to have it running by spring (which it still isnt fully running) my attention to detail wained a bit. Props to you for taking your time and catching things like this!!

One note, having done this pretty recently, you really only need hose clamps by themselves to act as ring compressors, and only two at that. The trick is, with the two center pistons UP, slide the jugs down over the top of the pistons untill it pushes the hoseclamp down to catch the first ring, and repeat with the next ring on both pistons at the same time. Then, when you get those two in, remove the clamps (which you will have to completely undo obviously) and put them on the two outer pistons, repeat the process. This works REALLY REALLY well with two sets of hands, and i think this was probably the easiest part of the job that Steve and I have been working on for his son. It went pretty flawlessly. You may already know this, but I just thought i would toss that out in case you didnt. Ive done this very thing with one set of hands, and its a lil tricky, so if you have someone around to simply guide the jugs, its a tremendous help.

Keep up the good work bro! I am looking forward to being jealous of your beautiful work!! LOL

[Cassius086]

AWESOME. All I can say...

[posplayr]

Tck

Hey TCK,
Thanks for the comments and the suggestions. This has turned out to be way more work that I originally thought to do. On the other hand I drove myself crazy working on the GS750EX, because I kept tearing it down to do something and then race to reassemble so I could ride it. With the GS1100ED, I started tearing it down on the 2nd day, and I just keep the GS750 as the daily rider. I think it was Nessim that said it is best to take care of everything at once so you know what you have and dont have to redo alot of things. In some cases I am redoing things that are not that old, but starting from the same baseline will be comforting when done.


From my handiwork it is clear I was trying to install the Juggs incorrectly. I tried the two pistons up but when putting pressure on them they dropped and all four would equalize to the the same height. So I did all four pistons simultaneously by myself with the demonstrated results. 8O Close but absolutely no cigar. Some questions:

* So to keep the two center pistons up, do you put the engine in gear or is that the extra pair of hands?

* I see I just looked the 3" hose clamps I have will completely cover the ring set on one piston. I was thinking to cut a 1 1/2" strip (enough to cover all of the rings) thin aluminum sheet and compress it with the outer hose clamp. That way the rings only see aluminum and none of the clamp steel. I may have just gotten a bit anal with the previous results.

* There is a bit of a rough area near the clamp. How tight are the hose clamp? I suspect it is still loose enough to rotate with a liberal application of oil.

* What exactly are the two pairs of hands doing? When I did all four by my self, the cylinder was sitting on top of all four pistons with no compression rings. I then used the sides of screw drivers (as per Rapidray's suggestion) to compress the top ring get them initiated into the cylinder working back and forth it slid in relatively easily. On the 2nd compression ring a little tougher because of the force required to drop the juggs, but same thing till I got down to the oil rings. At this point I must have been flying because you would think the oil rings should be pretty easy but I did screw it up. So basically I worked myself back and forth with the juggs supported by the rings in the cylinders.

Where do the two sets of hands go? Got a video?:-D Maybe two sets of hands each pulling down on the cylinder and monitoring each respective piston.

I'm pressing ahead, worked on the handle bars and levers last nite. Gotta start reassembling the harness and all of the connections that have been cut or modified.

[posplayr]

I would just like to mention

While I still have a long way to go, I would very much like to thank Rapid Ray for all of his help. He has helped me with basically providing answers and recommendations ON CALL (even Sunday's when I'm in the middle of something and dont know what to do).

I am pretty sure I would not have jumped into this GS refurb/restoration without this website but also the probability of it happening in a reasonable time has improved dramatically with having Ray available to answer my many questions.

I hope you don't mind Ray, but I'm taking the liberty to post your picture with your drag bike. This was taken a couple of weeks ago when I went down to OC to pickup a GS1100ED frame to help me in piecing mine back together.

I also met Basscliff as Ray was helping him by balancing his carbs. Anyway above and beyond the help from this board, Ray has been especially helpful providing both online and phone tech support. Thanks to everyone here that has helped and especially thank you very much to Ray.

I'll try and keep up this link, but I'm pressing to get the bike done. I will try and document most of the major elements.



Posplayr

[TheCafeKid]

Hey TCK,
Thanks for the comments and the suggestions. This has turned out to be way more work that I originally thought to do. On the other hand I drove myself crazy working on the GS750EX, because I kept tearing it down to do something and then race to reassemble so I could ride it. With the GS1100ED, I started tearing it down on the 2nd day, and I just keep the GS750 as the daily rider. I think it was Nessim that said it is best to take care of everything at once so you know what you have and dont have to redo alot of things. In some cases I am redoing things that are not that old, but starting from the same baseline will be comforting when done.


From my handiwork it is clear I was trying to install the Juggs incorrectly. I tried the two pistons up but when putting pressure on them they dropped and all four would equalize to the the same height. So I did all four pistons simultaneously by myself with the demonstrated results. 8O Close but absolutely no cigar. Some questions:

* So to keep the two center pistons up, do you put the engine in gear or is that the extra pair of hands?

* I see I just looked the 3" hose clamps I have will completely cover the ring set on one piston. I was thinking to cut a 1 1/2" strip (enough to cover all of the rings) thin aluminum sheet and compress it with the outer hose clamp. That way the rings only see aluminum and none of the clamp steel. I may have just gotten a bit anal with the previous results.

* There is a bit of a rough area near the clamp. How tight are the hose clamp? I suspect it is still loose enough to rotate with a liberal application of oil.

* What exactly are the two pairs of hands doing? When I did all four by my self, the cylinder was sitting on top of all four pistons with no compression rings. I then used the sides of screw drivers (as per Rapidray's suggestion) to compress the top ring get them initiated into the cylinder working back and forth it slid in relatively easily. On the 2nd compression ring a little tougher because of the force required to drop the juggs, but same thing till I got down to the oil rings. At this point I must have been flying because you would think the oil rings should be pretty easy but I did screw it up. So basically I worked myself back and forth with the juggs supported by the rings in the cylinders.

Where do the two sets of hands go? Got a video?:-D Maybe two sets of hands each pulling down on the cylinder and monitoring each respective piston.

I'm pressing ahead, worked on the handle bars and levers last nite. Gotta start reassembling the harness and all of the connections that have been cut or modified.

Oh I should have added. Steve used a couple of wood "forks", to keep the center pistons up. Basicly two pieces of 1x2 bout 6 inches long or so with a notch cut out of the center of them big enough to slide the connecting rod between. Then the pistons are held up..sorry that would have been helpfull to begin with...lol. When we put the cylinders on the studs, it took a bit of persuasion to get them down onto the pistons, dunno if yours are sliding right down or not, but the second set of hands is great for assuring the cylinders stay level, and the pistons and rings are going in properly, as well as assuring that the cylinders keep moving down.
With the hose clamps, you need them simply tight enough to compress the rings. they obviously wont ever see the inside of the bore, so the loser you can get it the better, and yes you should be able to turn it. We lubed the rings up pretty good with oil when we put the cylinders on. I would try NOT to spin them however, simply because you dont want to misalign your gaps. I wish i had a video of this, as Steve has done an excellent vid on replacing valves and springs, but we didnt have a THIRD set of hands to video tape with..lol

[posplayr]

TheCafeKid

Thanks, I think my probability of success on the second trial is improving significantly.
Posplayr

[rapidray]

Thanks for all the kind words Jim! I appreciate it & just enjoy helping people. I wish I could've been there to help you get that cylinder on the first time but I'm glad you found that oil ring before you fired it up & KILLED that piston & cylinder! Talk about GOOD LUCK on that one! Ray.

[Go Mifune]

3 Cheers for Rapid Ray.
Guys like Ray and others who are willing to share their wisdom and knowledge are what make this site great.

[chef1366]

Put the center two pistons (2&3) over the outside two (1&4) with the outside two sticking outside the crankcase enough where you can get your fingers and a screwdriver in there. Tie a speaker wire or something like that to the cam chain and drop it in the crankcase. This will keep the pistons from moving.

[rapidray]

Anything NEW, Jim?!!!! Ray.

[Sunburn]

Ya, get busy!, LOL I want to turn the page on this story.......

[buster]

Is this thread dead? From the sig it looks like the bike is together...oh well guess I will just have to imagine the rest...lol

[J_C]

He was painting as of this Sunday