Dynojet Stage 3 or rejet with Mikuni parts?

[Guest]

My bike is almost done, and I am now looking at the carbs. It has pods and a Kerker header/pipe. It also has a big bore kit. It currently has a Dynojet Stage 3 kit installed, but some claim it is better to just rejet with Mikuni parts.
Opinions, please.

[tkent02]

How well does it run?

[koolaid_kid]

Not at all, I am just finishing up the rebuild.

[TheCafeKid]

My bike is almost done, and I am now looking at the carbs. It has pods and a Kerker header/pipe. It also has a big bore kit. It currently has a Dynojet Stage 3 kit installed, but some claim it is better to just rejet with Mikuni parts.
Opinions, please.

Who are these "someones" and where are they so I can slap them upside their retarded heads?? You can use Mikuni jets all ya want (just have to translate the mikuni to Dynojet size) I dont think that will matter. But you cant use the Mikuni needles. They are not "fast" enough of a taper to put fuel into the mid throttle positions. If you want a bucking, stuttering, stammering, ill responding peice of junk, go ahead and use those MiC needles.. Otherwise, stick with the DJ kit...



Now, since you're talking about a KOW here, and not a GS, I have heard tales that DJ needles dont work as well as FactoryPro needles in the Kawasakis, but I have no practical first hand knowlege of that...

[koolaid_kid]

You caught me, TCK, it's the GPz. I was Googling around and found a post by WiredGeorge who had a huge slam for the DJ kit in my exact bike (sans the big bore kit) especially the needles.
When I got the bike, it ran smoothly, no carb glitches that I could tell. It just didn't have any power on the top end. I checked the compression and it was low, hence the rebuild. It came with the Wiseco kit in a box, so it is now in the engine. The PO told me he had some issues jetting it, I presume he meant the mains. The kit came with 180s (which are now MIA) but he ordered all sizes from 175 down to 150 (which are now in the carbs).
Except for finishing up the head, installing, degreeing cams, etc., the carbs are the last thing I have to do. Since I am doing a complete rebuild on the carbs using the GSR rebuild pages, I figure now is the time to make changes if I need to.
Since the needles affect mid-range, I could always find a different solution if it came to that. The PO had the needles lowered one notch, which I have heard may be correct anyway. IDK, this is my first go-round with a DJ kit.
I know how to test and adjust the jetting, I just want to have a good starting point since the carbs are going to be in a million pieces shortly.

[TheCafeKid]

First of all I wouldn't take ANYTHING wiredgeorge has to say for more than a grain of salt. That guy has consistantly proved he knows nothing about carburation aside from setting them up so lean they turn your head into a pile of molten alu goo. Frankly, how he hasn't had his ass sued off after the way he sells his services is beyond me. Aside from that, while I have found that the DJ kits aren't quite plug and play, they are damn damn close. There are so many variables involved in tuning carbs that you can't simply get "out of the box" performance. They will however eliminate 97% of the guesswork and trial and error. What I have found is that despite their instructions you may or may not end up moving the clip down a notch or two or somewhere in between. But that is EASY on cv carbs. Don't even have to take em off the bike. Now with your stage three pods pipe and bore kit I'm going to suggest the largest main they gave you. Assure your slides are drilled per instructions and stay with the STOCK pilot jet. Your needle clip if I had to guess is going to end up at the third clip up from the pointed end of the needle.

[koolaid_kid]

I kind of wondered about WG. I first met him on the kzrider forum, where he is apparently well thought of. But I did not care for the email exchange we had over there, and haven't spoken to him since.
I would not expect any box kit to be spot on; there are too many variables. But if I can get in the ballpark, I can go the rest of the way.
I have an Innovate LM-1 Wideband that I use for tuning OBDI & OBDII cars, and I plan on connecting it to the bike for the fine tuning. Tuning for AFR should be much more precise than the seat-of-the-pants approach that most carbureted bikes seem to use. I just can't find the OBD port to connect my datalogger to.
Slides are drilled (I pulled one out yesterday, which is when I discovered the needle had been dropped) and I'll check the pilot jet when I tear it down for the official GSR Carb & Clean Tutorial work.

[tejasmud]

LM-1 will make it easy. It is pretty accurate as long as you are not sucking fresh air in anywhere.

Here is a link for Mikuni needle dimensions if you become inclined. Might be able to find something that has a better taper and adjustable.

http://www.mforce.hu/kepek_lapokhoz/termekek/mikuni/jnlist3.xls

Finding where to buy would be the trick though. Sudco possibly.

Here is a place where I have purchased needles before. They don't have no where near all of them, but they have a few choices.

http://www.psep.biz/store/mikuni_carburetor_part.htm

I have never used a dynojet kit, but haven't worked with CVs much either.



E

[TheCafeKid]

Not to sound like a party pooper nor tryig to disuade you from experimenting but I have quite a few mikuni needles in the sharpest quickest I could find. Adjustable sets from Canada, the pre EPA quick taper mechanical
carb needles etc and I have done alot suffering trying to
"jet by hand" on cv carbs with stock MiC needles fro
differnt carbs. You can get pretty close I suppose but not without alot of trial and error and usually using much larger than necessary mains to help feed fuel through the part of the needle that's still too fat (and they always are. Compare side by side with calipers how fast DJ needles are vs ANY mikuni) and your top end will be soft and mushy and wet and you'll have horibble fuel economy. It's just so much easier and much more satisfying to use the DJ kit. That's all I'm sayin.

[koolaid_kid]

LM-1 will make it easy. It is pretty accurate as long as you are not sucking fresh air in anywhere.

I've got the tailpipe adapter, I'll just remove the baffle and shove it up its azz.
I've had lots of practice with the LM-1, I just need to wire up a cig lighter adapter.

[tejasmud]

Hey Josh, I think you are "Dead On" with the dynojet kit. The work has been done, and much easier from what I have read.

Some of us just like punishment.

No really, it is not that bad if you can see what is going on though. If it were not for this I would stick to a jet kit hands down.

I've got the tailpipe adapter, I'll just remove the baffle and shove it up its azz.
I've had lots of practice with the LM-1, I just need to wire up a cig lighter adapter.

I just gave mine a new bung. lol

The tail pipe adaptor works, just need to make sure you are not sucking air as you should know, and all is well.. I purchased an extra cig lighter power cable from Innovate and just clipped it off to wire direct. That power cable is only like 10ft long, where you only need to go 2ft. In the beginning I actually had a socket rigged up on my other bike.

Then I just shove the LM1 in a tank bag with a clear map pocket. Also run a LMA3 to see some other things in relation to the AFR.

It does cost a little bit for the set-up, but once you have it you can use it on cars, bikes, or whatever down the road. Hard to turn back after using it, I set it up on my lawn mower if I could figure out how.



E

[koolaid_kid]

Yeah, I've shoved it up a few pipes before. I tune cars with it, and run data analysis with it also. If the vehicle runs too lean, and I collect other data, I can diagnose exactly what the issue(s) may be. I also use it on my own car, a 97 TransAm with a rear-mount turbo. But I use a bung for that, since it's my own car. The initial cost is a bit to swallow, but I have gotten my money's worth out of it and more.
I always wire up an adapter on my bikes so I can run an air compressor if I get a flat on the road, and a battery tender during the winter. This will just be another item to plug in my adapter. And I have the tank bag already, its my most used item, kind of like a bike purse.

[TheCafeKid]

uhh huh huh huh. You guys said "bung hole"

ANyway, If I had a...huh huh "bung" and could do AFR I would play more with trying to get stock or at least MiC stuff to work, just cause im a tinker-er. But I dont, so after a while, I just want the thing to run, and ride it, and I get a little frustrated..hehehehe

[koolaid_kid]

All you need is an O2 sensor bung, welded on your exhaust somewhere. If I were to do that, I would probably choose the collector. You put a plug in it when you are not using it. I won't say anything chauvanistic here, although the opportunities are obvious.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

The DJ kit works fine.
As for wiredgeorge, he understands little, if anything, about jetting. He has much to learn about basic tuning too.
Last bike he had a part of around here nearly melted down according to the owner (old66vet). It's unfortunate when people trust someone and they get screwed. It's a shame the guy makes claims that he has no business making so he can make money. His website really impresses those who don't know much about carburetion and he sucks them in.