GS1000G mods- big bore and fuel injection

[coombehouse]

when I was testing Series v.s. Shunt R/R and doing intermitent runs to grab the scope displays I ended up smoking my Webcam exhaust cam and swapped out both . This was with a top end oiler and high performance gears to increase pressure on my 16V.

Thanks for that bit of info. It confirms my thoughts. My bike is a 16v gs1100 motor too with big pump gears, a new oil pump & external lines. The wear was on all lobes of the cams with the worst wear on cylinders 2 & 3 which get the oil last. The cams were cam motion g4. I will pull the motor soon & strip completely to get the swarf out. Then its a rebuild & back to the tuning. I am going to increase the bore of the oil lines to -6 & modify the feed. I will also increase the oil level slightly to offset the volume of the oil cooler in case that is a factor. Its all good knowledge though even if it costs me money. Its just a pity it called a halt to my fuel injection experience.
Nick

[GS1000G Shopper]

Thanks for all the info. Our heat wave is subsiding, and there is an auto tune feature on Tuner Studio I need to learn about.

The first problem was fuel pressure that was too high, AFR on the gauge was around 9.x-10.x and it was really rich. I adjusted it down via the controller to where it is around 40-45 while running. This got the AFR up around 12-13. I'm still learning how to log all of the data, it didn't show up in the composite log I saved.

I did run it a couple of minutes today and tried to move it under power- no go, it died out.

[coombehouse]

Thanks for all the info. Our heat wave is subsiding, and there is an auto tune feature on Tuner Studio I need to learn about.

The first problem was fuel pressure that was too high, AFR on the gauge was around 9.x-10.x and it was really rich. I adjusted it down via the controller to where it is around 40-45 while running. This got the AFR up around 12-13. I'm still learning how to log all of the data, it didn't show up in the composite log I saved.

I did run it a couple of minutes today and tried to move it under power- no go, it died out.

I don't quite understand what you mean about the AFR readings but I just followed the manual. I set the fuel pressure to 45psi. I filled in the AFR table with the value 12.8in all cells which is safe for an aircooled motor. I messed with the startup & warmup values until the bike started & idled correctly. I then adjusted the values in the fuel table to get a good warm idle & locked out these cells so that they wouldn't be affected by any tuning later. I then used the auto tune function in tuner studio (you just turn it on & ride) with a netbook plugged in on the bike & rode it up & down the driveway. This produced some numbers in the fuel table which allowed me to guess the rest of the values. Then ride & repeat until done. The most difficult was the warmup & accelerator pump function but that is not critical initially. Good luck
Nick

[GS1000G Shopper]

Thanks for the tips. I learned about increased fuel pressure & delivery when building a turbo LT1 engine. If you take a 240cc injector rated at 43 PSI and bump it to 55 PSI, it will flow more fuel (271 cc or 13%). RC Engineering has a calculator on this page:

http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

[ArttuH]

I'm still learning how to log all of the data, it didn't show up in the composite log I saved.

"Normal" data logging is completely separate to trigger logging. It's on the top menu under "Data Logging" (surprise ). From there select "start logging" and then click "save" on appearing file menu. Once you have finished click "stop". Then you can use LogViewer to view the log.

[GS1000G Shopper]

OK, I was using the wrong part of the software. Thanks so much.

[gmansyz]

Wondering

I was wondering as to why the valve train is having trouble with the engine idling. Maybe, you don't have enough rpm at idle to flow enough oil? Perhaps, you need to try synthetic oil?
Laters
G

[coombehouse]

I was wondering as to why the valve train is having trouble with the engine idling. Maybe, you don't have enough rpm at idle to flow enough oil? Perhaps, you need to try synthetic oil?
Laters
G

I was wonder exactly the same thing too. I am using plain ordinary semi synthetic & for many year I used mineral car oil without any problems. Fully synthetic wasn't around when the engine was designed but it is an option I have considered. I am hoping that it won't be a problem in the future as I don't intend to run the bike for long periods at idle but I would like to know the cause for sure. Cams & rockers sure are expensive!
Nick

[hotrods316]

gs1000, thanks for the link back to this thread. i started reading it when you first started this project and quickly became interested in it. then it stalled out and i lost my interest. glad i refound the thread and that u got the bike running., hopefully you have it sorted out or will get it sorted for the riding season coming up. i want to do a simple setup on a total loss race bike. i already have dyna 2000 so the ignition is taken care of. does the MS need this 36tooth wheel that seemed to be your problem.

I just want to convert to efi for the increase airflow over stock 26mm carbs,

I already have injectors off a daytona 955 and thats about it for the new project.

any tips and help you found along the way will be very helpful,

thanks

matt
s&m racing

[GS1000G Shopper]

It's stalled out again due to other commitments/necessities. coombeehouse sent me a file, but I have not had the time to go through it and get the bike operational. When I do, I'll update here.

[posplayr]

It's stalled out again due to other commitments/necessities. coombeehouse sent me a file, but I have not had the time to go through it and get the bike operational. When I do, I'll update here.

Hope you can get back to it. You have compiled a lot of information here. I'm subscribed.

[GS1000G Shopper]

After installing the new (coombehouse/1100E) file and adjusting the trigger wheel settings, the bike would not start. I spent some time this morning looking at the new file vs my last one. Here are some differences by Tuner Studio category (aside from the trigger wheel being 36-1 @ 78.9 degrees vs my 24-2 @ 60 degrees setup):
"Engine constants"
Required fuel calculator:
We both had 1100cc and 4 cylinders and AFR of 14.7, but I had 220cc/min for the injector flow vs 0 for the new file. This appeared to be a significant difference.
Accordingly, I had 7.7 for required fuel with an ms of 7.7, vs 8.6 and 4.3 (EDIT- my file was wrong, due to the alternating and 2 squirts setting. The ms value should be about half as the new file was, I changed my settings from alternating to simultaneous and got 7.7 and 3.85)
My algorithm was speed density, vs Alpha-N. See below for notes on this.(EDIT used speed density)
My injector staging was alternating vs simultaneous (EDIT see above)
My port type was throttle body vs port injection (EDIT used throttle body)

"More engine constants"
My primary fuel load was speed density vs Alpha-N (EDIT used speed density)
My setting was to incorporate an AFR target of 14.7 vs don't incorporate (EDIT used don't incorporate)
Primary ignition load was also speed density vs Alpha-N (EDIT used speed density)

"Tools"
The throttle position sensor values were slightly different. (EDIT varies by bike, recalibrated)
The MAP sensor values were different due to mine using the GM sensor and the new file using a MPX4250 (EDIT used GM settings)


"More ignition options" (EDIT have not adjusted these yet, using new file numbers for now)
My crank dwell was 3 degrees, the new file was 6
My crank advance was 0 vs 3 degrees
Max dwell duration was 2.5 vs 4.0
Max spark duration was 2.0 vs 1.5

Notes-
From the Microsquirt manual, it says this about speed density vs Alpha-N:
In all cases, you should choose speed density unless you have a good reason to do otherwise, and understand how this will change your tuning efforts. All tuning advice in this manual is based on the speed-density algorithm. Alpha-N uses the throttle position (alpha) and RPM (N) to calculate the amount of fuel to inject as opposed to using the manifold absolute pressure (MAP) and RPM to calculate the amount of fuel to inject. Alpha-N is useful for long duration cams where the resolution of manifold air pressure (map) would be small. It is also useful to get smoother idle on engines that have erratic map values. MegaSquirt® be converted from its default speed-density calculations to Alpha-N which uses RPM, temperature and TPS only. You must have version 2.0 (or higher) of the embedded software installed. Start up the tuning software, go to the Constants dialog and change speed density to Alpha-N. Re-map your VE table. You will no longer use the MAP sensor for estimating the load on the engine, the throttle position and rpm are used instead. This can help with cams with long duration and/or a lot of overlap, as they have low and variable vacuum at idle, making tuning very difficult.


I will try to find the happy medium here and will report back if I am successful.

[GS1000G Shopper]

Today was another step forward. After making a "Hybrid" file using best guesses based on the info I found, the engine started and did not die upon twisting the throttle. That's the good news.

The bad news is it is running really rich (my wideband goes to 9:1, and it was below that w/ a lot of black smoke), and the idle was way too high (over 3K). I forgot to capture the run on the computer, so I ran it again and the idle was down around 2400. I made sure the idle screw was not turned in, and from reading I need to adjust the VE table.

[GS1000G Shopper]

After back-burnering this for a long time, I spent some more time with it recently. I think the main issue was the timing was set incorrectly. Doing some research, I updated the Microsquirt to v. 3.83 so I could use the autotrigger function, which makes setting timing easier. I used a Suzuki timing set with dial indicator (I remembered I've had it in my toolbox since the 70's) to find TDC for #1 cylinder and then counted teeth on the wheel. I had the tune set up on the laptop and ready to install.

It then reported a version mismatch from the Microssquirt to the tune I had saved, so I tried writing a new tune. Now it no longer connects to my laptop, so 1 step forward and 1 step back. I've updated the USB to serial drivers to use the recommended D2XX drivers, apparently these are as touchy as a dry leaf in winter. It connected momentarily and then nothing. From reading posts in the Tuner Studio forum, I am going to buy a $10 PCMCIA to serial adapter and bypass the entire USB to serial debacle. Now I remember why this was on the back burner for so long.

[coombehouse]

Ha ha, here we go again.