GS1000G mods- big bore and fuel injection

[GS1000G Shopper]

The Neon coil mount is complete. Here is the info:
Tools:
Drill or drill press
5mm drill bit
6mm x 1.0 tap
Sawzall

Materials/hardware:
Aluminum bar, 1.25" x .5" x 12" cut to size.
Bolt, coil to mount: 6m x 1.0 x 50mm (4)
Bolt, mount to frame: 6mm x 1.0 x 20mm (4)
1/4” bonded rubber/metal washers: 4 (These are available at Lowes or a hardware store)
6mm flat washers: 8
6mm lock washers: 8

Once cut to match the existing coil brackets, I marked it for the top mount holes and also for cutting away excess material by the front mount. While it would likely clear the tank, it was not too big of a job to cut the front part down. A small piece of aluminum was left over after the first cut. The overall width to mount the Neon coil is 3.75", so placing the remaining piece of aluminum between the other two allows the exact width needed (1.25" x 3) for marking the holes underneath. I aligned the coil with the rear of the bracket and used a 1/4" drill bit to mark the holes. After drilling & tapping the holes, I installed the mounts.

The coil is a tight fit, but can go in with the bracket installed. The trick is then to place the bonded washers under the mount tabs while inserting the 6mm bolts from above.

The tank cleared just fine.

All I need to do now is wire the coil pigtail (should be here later today) and measure/cut/assemble the plug wires.

Here are some pics:
Mounts


Top view installed


Side view

[GS1000G Shopper]

I am afraid you are overcomplicating this. I just printed the graduations on some paper & glued it onto the trigger plate. There is next to no heat in this area.
Nick

I ended up doing the same thing for now, and found once the bike started I had reversed the scale direction. The timing marks need to be to the left of TDC, or looked at like the face of a clock, from about 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock instead of 12 to about 2. I have deleted the incorrect posts and will re-publish once I have the correct setup.

I'll disagree about overcomplicating something as basic as being able to check timing. The factory setup used timing marks here for a reason. The MS manual is very clear about being able to verify timing with a light, and since I may at some point sell this bike I'm sure the next owner would appreciate being able to do so w/o any extra effort. If I can get a brass plate made for under $20, I'll consider this a good investment.

[Ecklund]

I ended up doing the same thing for now, and found once the bike started I had reversed the scale direction. The timing marks need to be to the left of TDC, or looked at like the face of a clock, from about 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock instead of 12 to about 2. I have deleted the incorrect posts and will re-publish once I have the correct setup.

I'll disagree about overcomplicating something as basic as being able to check timing. The factory setup used timing marks here for a reason. The MS manual is very clear about being able to verify timing with a light, and since I may at some point sell this bike I'm sure the next owner would appreciate being able to do so w/o any extra effort. If I can get a brass plate made for under $20, I'll consider this a good investment.

Agreed that you have no over complicated this process or made the thread too long.

I've wondered what it might take to add FI to an GS and your thread has been very instructive and interesting.

I appreciate the fact that you are willing to post both successful progress and things that need unforeseen corrections.

Can't imagine you would sell this bike after all of this. But great thread/post either way.

[GS1000G Shopper]

Thank you. I've gone through the thread today and tried to cut out posts that have outdated info or where better options exist.

I sorted out the latest issue after updating to MS Extra 2 version 3.3.3. I found I had to reverse the pickup wires to the Microsquirt. The bike starts easily, but idles around 3K RPM.

I modified the ignition timing with little effect, so I think my fast idle is due to my messing up the plate alignment on the throttle bodies. I'm going to replace the one I modified & use coombehouse's center linkage setup. I have updated the first post with a link.

You're right, I'll likely not sell this after all of this work.

[GS1000G Shopper]

Timing ring

Here's the latest timing ring design. Shapeways estimated about $20 and a couple of weeks. If this works as designed, and someone should want one, I can sell it via their site.

[posplayr]

Congrats on getting it to run, now the tuning can begin

[GS1000G Shopper]

I have to sort out the throttle bodies first. Just as well since I found there was a partial blockage in the fuel rail, some of the JB Weld must have overflowed. I have cut out the old aluminum fuel line I used and added a new one. This time I brazed the fuel line intro the rail halves.

[GS1000G Shopper]

More work with e-Machine Shop and Shapeways 3D printing. Between the two, it appears an almost drop-in timing wheel and plate could be created. I'll insert a combo draft picture of what I've created. The wheel has three marks on it, a timing mark on one tooth, a #1 on another tooth (for Mega/Microsquirt applications), and a VR mark for aligning the sensor. The last two are not really needed, but they help to show what goes where.

The crank has a bump on it where the OEM timing set rests. This is what turns the crank when you place a wrench on it. When #1 is at TDC, the bump is about 20 degrees beyond the factory timing mark (which cannot be seen under the plate). Indicated TDC can be anywhere on the wheel, so I used the area from 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock since there was nothing else there. I went in 10 degree steps for the numbers so as to make them larger. There are 5 degree marks from 0-45 degrees.

Using this data, I was able to create a mounting plate for the VR sensor that has timing marks built in to it. The wheel I designed was a common 36-1, so each tooth is 10 degrees. It is the same OD as the one I am currently using. No sense to totally reinvent the wheel.

As Arttu has noted earlier in this thread, these parts are too costly to make just one, at least in metal. The estimate for the plate was about $130 and the metal wheel was about $125. I realize there is next to no demand for this stuff, but thought it would be nice to save my work. Using inexpensive plastic parts (< $20 each), if I can get everything to line up, I will save the files in Shapeways and e-Machine shop for future use should anyone want to spend the money for metal parts. This should work for any 4 cylinder GS of this era that has the same crank opening.

Arttu advised the crank sensor was from an 80's-90's Suzuki dirt bike. I did some research & found the OEM part number was 32150-05D00. An eBay search turned these up new aftermarket for $9 each.

Plate with integral timing marks (for some reason, Shapeways considers this part too small to create in anything but plastic, but e-Machine Shop can make it in aluminum) and 36-1 wheel. I have updated this drawing to incorporate a tooth #1 angle of 100 degrees. The suggested angle for a 4 cylinder engine is 90-120 degrees.

[GS1000G Shopper]

As a side note, I pulled the timing setup from my spare GSX1100G and found it has the same base diameter and slot where it fits into the crank as the GS engine. The hex nut is also 19mm. The wheel is much shorter, as there is not as much room under the timing cover. The GSX uses a single pickup and the wheel has 4 teeth- 3 narrow and one very wide tooth. The wheel diameter is just under 2 inches, so it may be possible to use a similar setup on the GSX at some point.

[ArttuH]

Nice work with timing markings! How they will be done on actual metal parts?

It's worth of noting that this VR sensor isn't tested with 36-1 wheel of that size. So there is a risk that teeth width and spacing gets too small for the sensor. Though it might work just fine.

And I can still deliver complete trigger set for about $100 (plus shipping) if anyone needs one.

[GS1000G Shopper]

I'm not sure if any of this is possible. I got a message from Shapeways that the plastic sample timing tab was illegible. I'm waiting to hear on the brass one.

Another concern is that 3D printed wheels are not 100% steel- Shapeways uses a 60% steel / 40% bronze mix. Since bronze is non-ferrous, this will likely affect the performance with a VR sensor. A MS user poiinted out the 3D part may not be suited for high RPM use. I have emailed Shapeways to see if this is a concern. I found a GE mini jet engine that was 3D printed and spun to 33K RPM.

I'm waiting to get some more info and if this appears feasible to save shipping costs will order all of the parts in cheap plastic to see how they fit.

The price difference is significant. e-Machine Shop wants over $500 to make a GS wheel and cannot easily print the text/mark, while I can get the same part made in 3D with the text/mark for a little over $100.

Did you check out the aftermarket RM250 sensor on eBay? They are selling for $9 each with free (US anyway) shipping. I put in some European countries and the shipping cost jumped to over $50, or $62.50 for 10. Like the other parts, you'd have to buy in bulk.

EDIT
I designed a 24-2 wheel and pasted it onto the plate diagram. It lined up perfectly with the timing marks, each tooth is 15 degrees vs the 10 degrees for the 36-1. I have revised this drawing to use a tooth #1 angle of 105 degrees. For 4 cylinder engines, the suggested range is 90-120 degrees.

[ArttuH]

Did you check out the aftermarket RM250 sensor on eBay? They are selling for $9 each with free (US anyway) shipping. I put in some European countries and the shipping cost jumped to over $50, or $62.50 for 10. Like the other parts, you'd have to buy in bulk.

Yes, it has been like that every time I have bought these sensors. In Europe they seem to cost about $40 each and in USA $10-20. And for some reason every seller in USA likes to charge around $50 for shipping which is quite steep as you can often get similar packages shipped for $10-15. So yes, I need to buy them in bulk to get price even somewhat reasonable.

If steel in printing alloy is stainless it isn't too good for the VR sensor either. Some ferrous stainless alloys may work but most likely the response is still weaker than with normal mild steel. My feeling is that strength isn't that big concern. Since the diameter is rather small the centrifugal forces should be reasonable.

[coombehouse]

As a suitable sized 36-1 trigger wheel is available from www.triggerwheels.com for very low cost & one of the existing GS sensors can be used with this, I fail to understand the need to consider 3d printing for this application. If you insist on manufacturing a custom wheel then I would suggest gear cutting or laser cutting is likely to give the best results. Laser would be cheapest.

[GS1000G Shopper]

Unlike a car engine with a flat pulley, it's not a simple matter of bolting on a wheel. The design I have created mimics Arttu's wheel, which performs the functions of the OEM piece by fitting into the crank hub and has a 19mm hex to turn the crank. If you care to look at the above drawings, you'll see dashed lines for the portion behind the toothed part that fits into the hub.

My wheel design simplifies installation and use by having tooth #1, sensor alignment, and a timing mark present. I have some more work to do on it based upon information learned from the Microsquirt manual. It's currently at a 30 degree angle and this needs to be 90-120 for optimum timing. Looking at my layout, I can easily revise it to 105 degrees.

My plate design has timing marks, something no one else has done. Checking timing is vital in Mega/Microsquirt installations.

These parts if produced would come from the US, which would save on shipping for domestic users.

At any rate, despite the continued criticism, I enjoy designing parts, and how I spend my time is my business. A year ago I lacked the skills to design a wheel and it has been an enjoyable learning experience that I've carried over to other projects. I've expanded on this and laid out a wheel for the GSX-G engine for when I do a similar conversion to it. This took about an hour since it was so similar to what I had made.

[GS1000G Shopper]

I have been doing some reading on what is called Individual Throttle Body mode or ITB. It appears most Megasquirt setups use speed density (SD), while others use Alpha-N (A-N). ITB is supposed to be a hybrid mode from the two that can be beneficial for a setup like mine. The process involves road testing with an operable SD or A-N tune, so I am not at that point just yet, but I have set up the Microsquirt per the below link to output on pin 7 (fast idle) to a temporary lamp at the handlebars when the engine is at 90 kpa. This is supposed to be similar to a dyno run, and the recorded data can then be analyzed and used for ITB mode. I've ordered a serial to Bluetooth adapter so I can log data on my phone via the Tuner Studio android app called Shadow Logger.

ITB mode setup thread on MS Extra forum