Potential Group Purchase - Wiseco GS650 741cc pistons

[Chuck78]

Decision needed here - John says it's $5 extra to have the bushed style stud holes to rivet the gasket together, or else we will have external tabs protruding out from the head/block where the gasket is riveted together externally.

I think I'd prefer the bushed hole style where there are no external protrusions, but he did not answer my question as to whether or not they could do the 4 inner holes in a 60% bushes method as the OEM 4 center studs are done. I will check back with him on that. He didn't confirm the estimate, but his original estimate was 5-24 gaskets approximately $80 each, externally riveted. So this would likely be $85 each with the bushed holes self-riveting the layers of gasket together, or $80 with external tabs and rivets.

Your thoughts???

Hi Chuck,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

To bush those bolt holes like that would add $5 to each gasket.

If you place an order for 20 I would be happy to send you one with external rivets first for your approval before mfg and sending the remaining units. If the only function is to hold the gasket together I don't think there would be any difference.

Regards,

John

Chuck, reading your info again and if i have understood correctly, it seems as if i should go for one at 0.8mm and the other at 0.9mm, as then I can either run the block as it is, or run with a zero decked block.

[frankenwabbit]

chuck ... i'm still good for 2 gaskets. .8mm and .9mm. ready to paypal....just say the word.

Hi Chuck. I will take 2 gaskets at the $80 price, but I would need them shipped to the U.K as you know. I am planning on getting the block decked, so maybe I should take two gaskets at a suitable thickness ( 0.8mm or 0.9mm ). If you think a different thickness would be good as a back up, I will go with your choice and happy to go with general view on which gasket make up is best. But put me down for 2 in the first buying group and let me know when you need paying and I will paypal the funds to you.

[Chuck78]

Latest word on the gasket options

I heard back from John, and apparently the price he quoted was for the easier method of affixing the multiple layers of spring shim steel together, using external tabs that are basically press riveted together. I am picturing this as being several extra tabs of material hanging out past the head where they are pressed together or riveted with a pressing action.

Apparently the style of the GS1100G gasket that I sent him photos of uses a bushed fit, where all of the head stud and bolt holes aside from the oil passage holes are cut undersized pm the outer layers and oversized holes slightly in the middle layers, and then the very undersized bottom layer is pressed through and folded over the inner layers and folded back like a rivet, securing all the layers together. The 1100G MLS gasket has this on all of the stud holes except the outside corner oil passages (for maximum sealing) and the 4 studs by the cam chain tunnel have the pressed through rivet "Bushed" method only around 65% of the stud, as to not distort the metal nearest the center cylinders inside areas, since those studs are closer.

It sounds like this method will probably bump the price up, but I am very much for proceeding with that route vs the external tabs and rivets.

I will get back to him on asking how much the price will be affected. Doesn't sound like a ton but possibly slight hike, I hope this is alright with everyone.

Gaskets-To-Go <inquiries@gasketstogo.com>[/EMAIL] [*][*]Today at 4:46 AM


Message body

Hi Chuck,

This appears to be what we term bushing, when part of one sheet is folded over another to hold them together and/or form a seal. Assume those are all the bolt holes?

The price I quoted was for a MLS with external riveting. If these need to be bushed like that it could affect the price.

Please let me know if we can external rivet (several tabs on the outside with a rivet through them to hold all sheets together.

Regards,

John

EDIT - I emailed him this sketch, and also asked if we could possibly use the OEM bushing technique on the 7 holes with an arrow and a B in them, and then use the tab and rivet technique in the center as a substitute for the 4 inner studs that the factory only partially crimped over or bushed, as they are closest to the compression sealing portion of the head gasket and Suzuki apparently skipped the inner portion of the head stud hole crimping or bushing in order not to compromise the sealing of the cylinder pressure whatsoever.



I have a VW Diesel head gasket on my wife's rabbit pickup that John made several years ago. I think it is the tab/rivet style. I will have to have a look under the hood to see if I can spot the tab and rivet external technique.

[Chuck78]

I actually went back down to the shop late last night and measured the Wiseco 65mm 740cc NOS gasket that I have, and it is for 65mm pistons, and measuring through the plastic wrap, this gasket bore is only 65.175mm bore or something close like that...


I like the idea of having it as close as possible to the bore, less volume means higher compression, and I feel that it will make the engine less efficient if there is a .8mm or so crevasse there for air and fuel to hide in, away from the flame front.
I want to look into this a bit further and see if there are any drawbacks to having the gasket bore closer to the edge of the cylinder bore. Obviously if there is even the slightest taper at the top of the bore, this will necessitate the gasket bore being slightly larger, which the Wiseco NOS gasket dimension implies.

A couple of gaskets I have here to measure, a new factory Hayabusa MLS is 1mm over the bore size.
A factory Mitsubishi Evo MLS is 1.2mm over the bore size, Mitsu does not offer oversize head gaskets so I expect this has room for .5mm overbore piston sizes.
I would presume that the 1mm over size John recommends is the proper thing for us to do.

It is common for MLS gaskets to be close to bore size where a composite gasket is larger at the cylinder. Unfortunately I can not give a good answer since I did not write down how much larger the MLS gaskets I have installed have been. I do have a few here to measure though and will do so in a few hours once the sun is up and I get in the shop.
I would also say that the manufacturer knows his product the best.

Yes, I definatly still want one, 0.8mm please. I can paypal a payment across as soon as you need it
thanks
Chris

[Chuck78]

if your block has never been resurfaced, then any will work, thinner will give best performance. If your block has been decked substantially, you may need the thicker. you have to install the pistons and bored cylinders, and set up some spacers and aluminum washers to torque down the block on the base gasket with the pistons installed, but avoiding using the outside four corner studs or at least be very very careful with the deck surface there, as these block areas need to remain very very smooth and undamaged to seal the oil pressure in. Then you just measure how far down in the hole the piston is below the deck surface. on several pistons. dead center left to right as the pistons can rock front to rear and give inaccurate measurements.

If your piston is down in the hole .020",then I would take it to a machine shop and tell them you need about .015" (fifteen thousandths) milled off the block. Then run a .8mm or .9mm head gasket to get around .037" - .043" of total piston to head "Quench distance."

Oh my apologies Chuck. Ok I am not sure the thickness I will need. I am not even sure the entire process I need to do to get the proper measurements. Could any of you guys give me some pointers on what size I should get?

[Chuck78]

I also just remembered that for anyone trying to do this on the cheap or needing a head gasket IMMEDIATELY, boonton_mike I believe it was also had purchased maybe 4 or so NOS Wiseco head gaskets like this one I have here:





I'm not sure how many Mike was keeping for himself, but I believe he bought up all of the other NOS Wiseco gaskets like this that were on ebay at the time.
I'm keeping this one just as a backup. I wondered how well this type of head gasket holds up over a few decades. I also noticed the 16mm corner oil feed stud holes, making it seem as if this gasket was also intended to take the OEM Suzuki corner oil stud seals as the original 650 gaskets did? It does not come with them like some of the Athena gasket packs do.

Perhaps someone else can answer this question better than I?



Also, I noticed that this Wiseco gasket has a bore diameter of 65,175mm as measured through the shrink wrap plastic. John recommended .5mm away from the bore on the gasket, meaning 65mm piston = 66mm gasket bore.
I need some feedback on this dimension before we get this finalized. Old Colt, do you have any feedback here?

[tkent02]

I would like the two I agreed to, I'm guessing one at .08mm and one at .09 or .10?
Not sure, not going to take it apart just to see what thickness I need.

[Chuck78]

**** WE ARE ALREADY AT 11+ CONFIRMED GASKETS JUST AN HOUR OR TWO AFTER POSTING, PERHAPS WE CAN GET THIS ALL IN ONE ORDER??????

EVERYONE ELSE PLEASE CONFIRM SOON IF YOU WANT AN $80 HEAD GASKET AND NOT $120 HEAD GASKETS!!!!

Note - the $80/each gasket was just a roughly quoted price, I will let you know the final price shortly. This does not include shipping, the price per gasket is what we need to get John to manufacture them.

I SHOULD ALSO NOTE - WHEN IT COMES TIME TO SEND THE DOWNPAYMENT TO ME, MAKE SURE IT IS SENT PAYPAL "Friends and Family" so that it does not charge me a fee! I can't take a loss on spearheading this order!

I also have a gasket that I am happy to post to John if you would like.