Most likely culprit? Valve clearances or carbs?

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  • Steve
    GS Whisperer
    • Jun 2005
    • 35927
    • southwest oHIo

    #16
    Two questions in this first statement:
    Originally posted by GelandeStrasse
    I fully understand the bike would run like crap as is but was hoping someone could confirm or not if the motor is so sensitive that tight clearances would stop it firing on three cylinders? Assuming the carb rebuild was ok.
    1. Yes, tight valves WILL keep it from starting.
    2. Wild assumption, as we have not yet heard whether you followed the "strip and dip" method of cleaning.
    Originally posted by GelandeStrasse
    Thou didst not follow exactly the procedure as one had not seen that excellent "how to" at the time. Thou shall start again, good practice!
    OK, this apparently answers the "did you dip them?" question, but in a negative manner.


    Originally posted by GelandeStrasse
    It also says in the how to that the bike may not even run without the air box.
    Not quite true. It will start OK, but will likely have problems responding to ANY throttle input.
    Originally posted by hampshirehog
    You can easily get 'em to tickover without the airbox fitted. Just don't bother twisting the right grip.
    See?



    Originally posted by tom203
    What do spark plugs (#!, #2, #3) look like after #4 carries on for a while- wet ,dry?
    Originally posted by GelandeStrasse
    Number 4 looks normal but the others were dry. There was fuel in the float bowls and the float level is correct. Pilots/fuel ways blocked?
    To me, this is rather conclusive evidence to show that your carbs are not clean enough to allow gas to flow through them.



    Originally posted by GelandeStrasse
    I did check the pilot jets were clear with a piece of wire but I couldn't get them out.
    There are holes on the sides of the pilot fuel jets that you can't poke with a wire unless you remove the jets from the carbs.
    Besides that, there are small passages from the pilot jets to the mixture screw that you can't poke with a wire, either.
    You HAVE to dip the carbs.


    Originally posted by GelandeStrasse
    I will get to the valve clearances but I'm now thinking the carbs are probably where I should start.
    Actually, you do them both at the same time. On the first day, start by stripping the carbs down to itty-bitty pieces, put the pieces for the first carb in the dip. Remove the valve cover, start measuring your clearances. Some guy named "Steve" has a spreadsheet that he offers that will help you record these. Look in his signature. Remove your shims (one at a time, please) and record their sizes in the spreadsheet. When you find out what sizes you need, order them from the "shim club" on GSR or from Z1 Enterprises. (Z1 also has the best price on valve cover gaskets.) This is also a good time to order new o-rings for the carbs from cycleorings.com.

    On the second day, remove the first carb's parts from the dip and rinse them in HOT water, then spray carb cleaner through the passages and follow with a blast of compressed air (wear safety glasses ). Put the second carb's parts in the dip.

    On the third and fourth days, you can repeat the activities of the second day, but by the fourth day, you should have received your shims and o-rings. Finsh assembling your carbs, put your new shims in, re-check your clearances with the 'new' shims, start the bike.

    Originally posted by Nessism
    The bike won't run for crap without the airbox. Period. You can tape over the carb openings, leaving only about 20% exposed if you just have to listen to it run before committing funds, but it will still run like crap.
    Again, it will start and idle just fine without the airbox. If you really want to hear it rev, and maybe even go for a ride around the block, fold a shop rag in half and clamp it to the outer carbs, while keeping it taut over the inner carbs. This will work well enough for a quick ride, but is not accurate enough to do any jetting checks.

    .
    sigpic
    mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
    hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
    #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
    #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
    Family Portrait
    Siblings and Spouses
    Mom's first ride
    Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
    (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

    Comment

    • GelandeStrasse

      #17
      Thanks loads for all hints and tips guys! What a great forum. I now have a plan of action to follow, yay! All that shooting in the dark business is frustrating. Now I have some benchmarks to aim for. This kind of info is not in any manual!

      Thanks again, watch this space

      Comment

      • GelandeStrasse

        #18
        Just wanted to share my excitement now I've been set on the right path by GSResourcers!
        Update: all pilots on cyls 1, 2 + 3 totally blocked and number 4 clear matching the symptoms exactly. Brilliant!
        Last edited by Guest; 01-28-2012, 04:12 PM.

        Comment

        • hampshirehog
          Forum LongTimer
          Past Site Supporter
          • Oct 2007
          • 12675
          • Hampshire. UK

          #19
          Originally posted by GelandeStrasse
          Just wanted to share my excitement now I've been set on the right path by GSResourcers!
          Update: all pilots on cyls 1, 2 + 3 totally blocked and number 4 clear matching the symptoms exactly. Brilliant!
          Don't just clean those carbs. CLEAN them.....! Take your time and do a really, really thorough job; it'll save you time and heartache in the long run.
          79 GS1000S
          79 GS1000S (another one)
          80 GSX750
          80 GS550
          80 CB650 cafe racer
          75 PC50 - the one with OHV and pedals...
          75 TS100 - being ridden (suicidally) by my father

          Comment

          • GelandeStrasse

            #20
            Originally posted by hampshirehog
            Don't just clean those carbs. CLEAN them.....! Take your time and do a really, really thorough job; it'll save you time and heartache in the long run.

            10-4 that, just waiting a couple days now while the release spray to works its magic on the pilot jets

            Comment

            • BassCliff

              #21
              Hi,

              Refer back to your "mega-welcome" for the necessary maintenance lists then check my website for the "how to" guides. You have a 30 year old motorcycle that needs 20 years worth of maintenance. All of the systems, components, and sub-assemblies must be checked, cleaned, repaired, replaced, adjusted, etc, in order to have a good running machine. Take absolutely no shortcuts in order to save a lot of frustration.


              Thank you for your indulgence,

              BassCliff

              Comment

              • tkent02
                Forum LongTimer
                Past Site Supporter
                • Jan 2006
                • 35571
                • Near South Park

                #22
                Originally posted by GelandeStrasse
                Just wanted to share my excitement now I've been set on the right path by GSResourcers!
                Update: all pilots on cyls 1, 2 + 3 totally blocked and number 4 clear matching the symptoms exactly. Brilliant!
                Damn, we're good!
                http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...tatesMap-1.jpg

                Life is too short to ride an L.

                Comment

                • Steve
                  GS Whisperer
                  • Jun 2005
                  • 35927
                  • southwest oHIo

                  #23
                  Originally posted by tkent02
                  Damn, we're good!
                  You got THAT right.

                  (We're humble, too.)

                  .
                  sigpic
                  mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                  hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                  #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                  #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                  Family Portrait
                  Siblings and Spouses
                  Mom's first ride
                  Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                  (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                  Comment

                  • GelandeStrasse

                    #24
                    Originally posted by BassCliff
                    Hi,

                    Refer back to your "mega-welcome" for the necessary maintenance lists then check my website for the "how to" guides. You have a 30 year old motorcycle that needs 20 years worth of maintenance. All of the systems, components, and sub-assemblies must be checked, cleaned, repaired, replaced, adjusted, etc, in order to have a good running machine. Take absolutely no shortcuts in order to save a lot of frustration.


                    Thank you for your indulgence,

                    BassCliff
                    Thanks, links saved, advice gratefully absorbed, bet you guys love ignorant newbies

                    Comment

                    • Nessism
                      Forum LongTimer
                      GSResource Superstar
                      Past Site Supporter
                      Super Site Supporter
                      • Mar 2006
                      • 35808
                      • Torrance, CA

                      #25
                      Originally posted by GelandeStrasse
                      Thanks, links saved, advice gratefully absorbed, bet you guys love ignorant newbies
                      We love helping newbies...mostly those that do a little homework, search out answers here and on basscliff's website, then come and ask intelligent questions that show they are actually trying! Guys like that are golden and don't stay newbies for long.
                      Ed

                      To measure is to know.

                      Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

                      Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

                      Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

                      KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

                      Comment

                      • GelandeStrasse

                        #26
                        just sharing a little shim removal tip to contribute after all the help I got recently

                        I found using a small piece of aluminium foil folded over a few times as a ramp to slide the shims up and out made the job quite a bit easier than fiddling around trying to grab the shims with needle nose pliers. Less likely to scratch anything too or damage the cover gasket face.

                        'pop' the shim with your screw driver, insert foil ramp and then push the shim out from the other side out with another zip tie, it'll come far enough so you can grab it with your fingers.
                        Last edited by Guest; 02-08-2012, 10:02 PM.

                        Comment

                        • btbarb

                          #27
                          Good one, I like the idea of the zip tie as an extra hand.

                          Comment

                          • BassCliff

                            #28
                            Hi,

                            It looks like necessity is the mother of invention. Good work.

                            It looks like somebody used some goopy stuff to glue down the old valve cover gasket. That's going to be fun to remove. Be very careful not to scratch or gouge the surfaces. Use only grease on the new gasket. It will make removal much easier next time.

                            You can also use hemostats to help in the shim removal. I found an inexpensive pair at the Army/Navy surplus store.


                            Thank you for your indulgence,

                            BassCliff

                            Comment

                            • cowboyup3371
                              Forum LongTimer
                              Past Site Supporter
                              • Apr 2010
                              • 14004
                              • In Ohio Now

                              #29
                              That or tweezers
                              Cowboy Up or Quit. - Run Free Lou and Rest in Peace

                              1981 GS550T - My First
                              1981 GS550L - My Eldest Daughter's - Now Sold
                              2007 GSF1250SA Bandit - My touring bike

                              Sit tall in the saddle Hold your head up high
                              Keep your eyes fixed where the trail meets the sky and live like you ain't afraid to die
                              and don't be scared, just enjoy your ride - Chris Ledoux, "The Ride"

                              Comment

                              • tkent02
                                Forum LongTimer
                                Past Site Supporter
                                • Jan 2006
                                • 35571
                                • Near South Park

                                #30
                                Levitation is the quickest.
                                http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...tatesMap-1.jpg

                                Life is too short to ride an L.

                                Comment

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