Paging Doctor Dan (SaltyMonk)

[TheCafeKid]

So question for you Dan, or anyone else who's done the salty monk brake upgrade with two twin pots.

Using a stock GS master, and after a crap load of cussing and fighting with it for a reason or reasons I still am not clear, we got Cowboyup's brakes feeling somewhat adequate. Having not done this mod myself, I've no real idea how the lever *should* feel. The initial bite is somewhat weak, but about 1/2 way back on the lever it really starts to feel darn good. Is this common with the stock master? (it is a master designed for dual calipers)
The MC is borrowed as his had the first few threads for the banjo stripped out. So we need to find him another anyway. Should he go with a Kaw MC off of one of the bikes that used these calipers for better feel?

Oh I will add the entire system is new/clean. New SS lines, master was freshly rebuilt and cleaned, calipers rebuilt etc.

[DannyMotor]

Are you using new pads? Have you done a proper 'break in' on them? Was there any sort of grease or dirt on the discs or pads before doing the tests?

Spray brake cleaner on a rag, hit both sides of both discs... then, when riding you've got to do a few relatively hard braking maneuvers. 20mph... brake hard with the front brake... not enough to lock it up, but like a cow just stepped in your path.

Then, ride for a bit, do it again at 40mph... 60mph.... 3-5 times total. This puts the heat into the pads and will help seat everything properly. Then... 2 things, you MAY need to re-bleed after this, and also, you may want to do a trick I've had to do on twin-disc bikes and that's take a zip-tie and zip-tie the handle to the grip over-night. Pump up the brake a few times, and then zip tie it to the throttle as FAR BACK as you can. Preferably touching the grip.

Then try it out again.

[TheCafeKid]

Are you using new pads? Have you done a proper 'break in' on them? Was there any sort of grease or dirt on the discs or pads before doing the tests?

Spray brake cleaner on a rag, hit both sides of both discs... then, when riding you've got to do a few relatively hard braking maneuvers. 20mph... brake hard with the front brake... not enough to lock it up, but like a cow just stepped in your path.

Then, ride for a bit, do it again at 40mph... 60mph.... 3-5 times total. This puts the heat into the pads and will help seat everything properly. Then... 2 things, you MAY need to re-bleed after this, and also, you may want to do a trick I've had to do on twin-disc bikes and that's take a zip-tie and zip-tie the handle to the grip over-night. Pump up the brake a few times, and then zip tie it to the throttle as FAR BACK as you can. Preferably touching the grip.

Then try it out again.

Appreciate the feedback, but that's not really what I'm talking about.
They are new pads, but we havent got the bike rideable yet, still a couple of other things to do. I'm talking more about lever feel than anything. I know what stock Gs brakes feel like when set up correctly, and I know what modern eyeball ripping brakes feel like when set up as well, lever wise, this is just different....
Dunno if the lever feel is somewhat mushy at first and that's normal wih the stock MC since theoretically it's having to move more fluid than stock calipers it was designed around (four pots vs two, though the second pots on each are about 1/2 the size of stock GS ) meaning he needs one with either a larger bore or longer stroke??? I'll know more once we get it rideable and see if it's stops as well as it seems to pushing it around...just concerned about initial bite..didn't know if that was normal with this set up as I've not done it before...

[salty_monk]

It varies a little with MC to MC.... I've used 5 different types with this mod over time & they have all felt a little different even though all have been 5/8" bore.

I think what you'll find is that the lever might feel mushy on the stand but it will feel about right when you are on the road as you won't need to use anything like the lever travel you're talking about to get good stopping power. It's deceptive.

The current master I am using is off of the modern Ninja. There are loads available on Ebay & they can be had for as little as $30 & they have a mirror mount plus an adjustable lever.
Brakeswitch is microswitch type so you need a couple of mine spade terminals & some heatshrink to wire it in.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=ninja+ex650+master+cylinder&_sacat=See-All-Categories

The stock bore is 5/8" the same as the stock Kawi bore. Leverage ratio might be a little different I guess.

The cable tie the lever to the bar trick is a good one.... If they don't "pump" up then they don't have air in & should be fine.

[cowboyup3371]

Thanks Dan. Yea, that was why I called last night so I'll definitely look at those MCs. I can say that after we got it where it felt "good enough", I pushed the bike back to Josh's other garage and about went over the bars when I "tested" the brakes. If they grab that good I'll have to pay attention to how much I'm squeezing the lever.

[Big T]

Mine are kind of softer at first part of lver travel, then bite hard - I can lock up the front wheel at 35 mph

I used the stock MC and the lines that came with the calipers. I'll be upgrading to SS, hopefully this summer

[cowboyup3371]

That's exactly how mine are acting Big T. What do you do to control those panic stops then (when you practice them)?

[TheCafeKid]

That's exactly how mine are acting Big T. What do you do to control those panic stops then (when you practice them)?

Lay off the rear brake, or smash it. And concentrate on modulating the front lever, squeeze, not pull. Like a trigger..

[tkent02]

I have those twin pot brakes with the stock master cylinder. One finger will lock it up.
This on a GS1100G. You just have to train you finger not to pull too hard.

[cowboyup3371]

Tom, how far are you pulling that lever with that one finger before it does lock up?

[tkent02]

First quarter, not much, pretty loose.

Halfway it starts to get firm, this would be fairly hard braking.

All in with one finger gets about two thirds to three quarters of the way in, can't pull it much more even with more fingers. This would be wheel lockage big time.

Just checked on all of the bikes, running or not, all are about the same as far as lever feel. Even the XT250 with the drum front brake. All of them the first third is nothing, and the lever stops at 2/3 to 3/4 of the way in no matter how hard I pull.

[cowboyup3371]

Thanks, it lines up with what we felt last night. I'll try it out once we are on the road.

[tkent02]

Thanks, it lines up with what we felt last night. I'll try it out once we are on the road.

Go easy.
I almost flipped the first Aprilia I ever rode by using two fingers on the brake at high speed.

Definitely do a proper brake bedding in once you get the feel of it.
It takes heat to get it all working well.

[salty_monk]

All sounds about right to me too...

You'll be amazed at the difference.

[Dogma]

What compound are folks using with this mod to get that wheel-locking grip? I'll be ordering pads soon, so it would be nice to have a head start on the research.