Cutting Spoke Threads?

[pete]

Hey all, figured this was the best place for this question..

Has anyone had to shorten spokes and cut the thread again? I'm looking for an inexpensive tool for this but my searching shows up very little, and nothing equivalent to a hand die or whatever you call it.

I've seen the term rolling used as opposed to cutting, which I believe is a slightly different result but haven't really gotten the gist of that yet...

This is actually to do the spokes on my Malvern Star bicycle for the Cucciolo but the results should help anyone needing to do the same and me of course if I need to do spokes on a Zuk in the future

[Big Rich]

Just curious Pete, have you emailed the folks at Buchanan's?

[subforry]

You might look at sites for bicycle spokes to learn more about rolling. Spokes are rolled instead of cut using a die. The die removes material thus reducing the diameter of the spoke and weakening it. Rolling keeps the spoke material. If you look at a spoke you will see that the outside of the thread is greater than the spoke diameter. Unlike a bolt that has been cut leaving the thread outside diameter the same or slightly less than the bolt diameter.

There are rolling machines for bicycle spokes. These might accommodate motorcycle spokes. They also might cost quite a lot.

[pete]

Just curious Pete, have you emailed the folks at Buchanan's?

Not at all Rich, but a quick look at their site shows me motorcycle and auto spokes only, so probably not going to have what I need, especially as I'm hoping to re-use the spokes that I have and just cut them down to the size I need.

You might look at sites for bicycle spokes to learn more about rolling. Spokes are rolled instead of cut using a die. The die removes material thus reducing the diameter of the spoke and weakening it. Rolling keeps the spoke material. If you look at a spoke you will see that the outside of the thread is greater than the spoke diameter. Unlike a bolt that has been cut leaving the thread outside diameter the same or slightly less than the bolt diameter.

There are rolling machines for bicycle spokes. These might accommodate motorcycle spokes. They also might cost quite a lot.

Thanks, that's sort of what I've seen along the way but not as clearly outlined as that.

I've seen a couple of machines advertised that are around the $AU160 mark but come without heads, and the heads appear around the $AU45 mark and up, so that's over $AU200

Mind you it's still better than the one I saw for $US3100!

So rolling... what does it cut the material and then roll it back on itself or something? As opposed to just removing the material?

Seems my research has not been enough so far...

[hampshirehog]

Have a look at this Pete:

http://www.dotbike.com/p/9480

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qN0XX8Byj8

[tatu]

Have a look at this Pete:

http://www.dotbike.com/p/9480

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qN0XX8Byj8

Looking at those tools I bet you could get away with just the head, fab up an arbor and use a cordless drill if the spoke was wrapped in a rag gripped in a vise. All with a steady hand of course.

[subforry]

So rolling... what does it cut the material and then roll it back on itself or something? As opposed to just removing the material?

For lack of a technical terms threads have hills and valleys. Rolling is more like pressing (in my mind). The rolling tool presses the material in to make the valleys. The displaced material from valleys is forced up to make the hills.

A die cuts the valleys.

I guess you could think of it like this, rolling is natural geology where earth quake faults move together and make hills. Using a die is what man does with heavy machinery to make the land more convenient - like cutting a road.

[oldpara]

like squeezing clay in a closed fist.
Rolling threads generally will increase the OD in that area somewhat.
And as posted makes the threads/part stronger.

[pete]

Have a look at this Pete:

http://www.dotbike.com/p/9480

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qN0XX8Byj8

Thanks HH, that's one of the two I've seen I can get which would end up a bit over $200 for the tool and head, although they do look the easiest way. The other is a Hazon brand I think, looks almost the same.

It's still very tempting given it could see use beyond these first 56 I'll need to do... 16 of the 72 spokes will be ok with the length they are.

Looking at those tools I bet you could get away with just the head, fab up an arbor and use a cordless drill if the spoke was wrapped in a rag gripped in a vise. All with a steady hand of course.

You know that's not a bad idea at all! That would make it about $40 odd instead of $200 odd... you got me thinkin...

I could always use an old hand drill I've got here too so I can go very steady and slowly...

For lack of a technical terms threads have hills and valleys. Rolling is more like pressing (in my mind). The rolling tool presses the material in to make the valleys. The displaced material from valleys is forced up to make the hills.

A die cuts the valleys.

I guess you could think of it like this, rolling is natural geology where earth quake faults move together and make hills. Using a die is what man does with heavy machinery to make the land more convenient - like cutting a road.

like squeezing clay in a closed fist.
Rolling threads generally will increase the OD in that area somewhat.
And as posted makes the threads/part stronger.

Thanks guys, now I'm getting the picture very clearly, excellent explanations

[jfman]

Rather than cutting spokes, wouldnt it be easier to find a factory wheel that uses the same design and lenght spokes you need and use those for your custom application?

Is there a chart online somewhere that gives a list of all spokes and their specs...

It would be useful.

[Adler]

I recently ordered custom length spokes from these guys...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/CUSTOM-LENGTH-STAINLESS-14G-SPOKES-SILVER-COLOR-/170891329276?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c9eabefc#ht_562wt_1397

The price is crazy good.

[pete]

Rather than cutting spokes, wouldnt it be easier to find a factory wheel that uses the same design and lenght spokes you need and use those for your custom application?

Is there a chart online somewhere that gives a list of all spokes and their specs...

It would be useful.

I think in the motorcycle world it's likely to be possible... but in the 1939 bicycle world I'm not so sure.

As for lengths, the guy I bought the drum brakes off reckons he has the same wheel setups and can get me the lengths I'll need, so it's really just a matter of shortening and re-threading the spokes at this point.

I recently ordered custom length spokes from these guys...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/CUSTOM-LENGTH-STAINLESS-14G-SPOKES-SILVER-COLOR-/170891329276?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c9eabefc#ht_562wt_1397

The price is crazy good.

That price definitely is crazy good! Still, stainless spokes weren't around in 1939 to me knowledge...

Good link for information though, thanks!

[Adler]

That price definitely is crazy good! Still, stainless spokes weren't around in 1939 to me knowledge...

Good link for information though, thanks!

Oh, they do steel also.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/UCP-spokes-bicycle-bike-Fixie-Road-MTB-etc-FREE-SHIPPING-/180971283754?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a22baa52a#ht_500wt_1414

If it was me, I'd cheat. No one would know

EDIT: Wikipedia says that stainless was around before '39. Don't know about spokes though.

[pete]

Oh, they do steel also.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/UCP-spokes-bicycle-bike-Fixie-Road-MTB-etc-FREE-SHIPPING-/180971283754?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a22baa52a#ht_500wt_1414

If it was me, I'd cheat. No one would know

EDIT: Wikipedia says that stainless was around before '39. Don't know about spokes though.

Wow they're so cheap!

I will have to ponder once I get my forks and start planning it out