Need expert answer re: 80 GS850G wheels

[hillsy]

So you think I should remove the tubeless tire off my KZ750 wheel without the humps and put a tube inside even though Kawasaki built the wheel as tubeless and the bike has been on the road for 36 years that way without issue?

If I was changing the tyre and I saw no retaining ridges I would put a tube in it. If one of my friends was changing their tyres and I saw the same I would recommend they use tubes.

I don't particularly care what you do, but if you were to ask me, I would suggest you should use a tube.

[Nessism]

Misguided concern.

[sharpy]

Basically if original fitment is tubless ure safe. From memory the 1st tubeless wheel we ever saw in Australia was on the front of GS850G's. Rear was tube. So there was sure a change over period. As for the KZ's they where around same time,1981. Anyway, i wouldn't use synthetic motor oil when using Cheng Shins. But when using Dunlop, Avon or any other good brand name it be Motul semi-synthetic motor oil all the time.

http://www.chinonthetank.com/2013/10/kawasaki-kz750/

[hillsy]

Misguided concern.

Quite the the opposite actually - it's using what we know now to eliminate risk. Nothing misguided about it.

If you're happy to go by what some guy thought was OK 40 years ago then I'm certainly not going to stop you.

[sharpy]

Shhhh dont get them started on there balancing liquid. This thread is easy compared to what they say in those threads. Be warned.

[hillsy]

I've used the balance beads before.....


Oops, I've done it now

[Nessism]

Okay, some questions that need answering and I'll let go of this thread...

Say we have a wheel without safety bumps running tubeless. Under what conditions would this setup be unsafe and why? And how would having a tube inside the tire increase safety?

I already know you are going to say that the tire could unseat from the bead and there would be catastrophic pressure loss, but how could this happen? Describe the mechanism.

I can't for the life of me understand how the tire could come away from the bead unless there was significant pressure loss already. And at that point any air that would possibly be left behind if using a tube wouldn't provide any rigidity anyway.

[GSXR7ED]

Shhhh dont get them started on there balancing liquid. This thread is easy compared to what they say in those threads. Be warned.

You've been a member for SOME time and have read/seen guidance (misguided or not). Very interesting feedback.


Ed

[Sandy]

Okay, some questions that need answering and I'll let go of this thread...

Say we have a wheel without safety bumps running tubeless. Under what conditions would this setup be unsafe and why? And how would having a tube inside the tire increase safety?

I already know you are going to say that the tire could unseat from the bead and there would be catastrophic pressure loss, but how could this happen? Describe the mechanism.

I can't for the life of me understand how the tire could come away from the bead unless there was significant pressure loss already. And at that point any air that would possibly be left behind if using a tube wouldn't provide any rigidity anyway.

Have any of you that road dirt bikes ever come back from a spirited ride to find debris wedged under the tire bead and had to deflate the tire to remove it? If you have you can thank your tube for not having a total deflation while riding. Now imagine hitting a pothole, board, rock or getting run off the road into a field or ditch to avoid a collision or some such self induced mishap and trying to regain or maintain control. Now imagine trying get control back while dealing with a flat front tire because whatever it hit forced tire back from the bead just far enough to instantly deflate. Chances of it happening are probably quite slim but there is a chance and that's probably the main reason it's there and the main reason the manufactures stopped putting tubeless tires on non-safety bead rims after a year or so. Your bike, your skin, your choice.

[Nessism]

Crud between the tire and vertical portion of the rim would not cause pressure loss. For that to happen the debris would have to travel UNDER the bead, on the horizontal portion of the wheel. That's where the seal occurs.

It seems to me that if your 500+ lbs. (+ rider) bike is off road and smashing into stuff with enough force to deflect the tire and force crap between the tire and rim then whether the tire is tube or tubeless is the least of your problems.

[Grimly]

I've been running tubeless on GS850s for decades, front and rear, with no sudden deflations and that's in spite of clanging down some humungous potholes over the years that have had me take wheels off and carefully examine the rim, tyre carcass and everything else for consequent damage or misalignment.
Tough old brutes, the 850s.