Sonic Springs and Race Tech Emulators intall

[bobtail84]

If your sag numbers are good now just shorten the spacer by the height of the emulator.

I was wondering if that would be the case, thanks for the info Rich.

[RichDesmond]

Got it, thanks again, and thanks for your quick responsees... I only wish I could get everything together that fast.... it will likely be a few weeks minimum before I get fully involved. My initial thinking was just swap them on and go, but in the long run, but that ocassially bites me in the end....

It probably will be fine if you just put them on the bike. Although personally, I'd at least pop the caps, put the new oil in and double check the static preload. 30 minutes, tops.

[glib]

Glib, I realized that I have hijacked your thread..... Apologies. My thinking was that it would help us both.

Not necessary Glen. Post away. Good stuff.

[glib]

Yes. Back it out until there's no tension on the spring, counting the turns as you go. Write it down. Then put it back the way it was.
Blue spring is good. I'd put 10w in, set the level to 120mm and see how it is.

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/E...Tuning%20Guide

Hey Rich. My emulators came with the yellow springs installed—four turns in. I expect they’ll be a bit stiff. That’s what I wanted really but I’m wondering what if the rear—which are Ohlins—are softer than the front. The sag is good both front and back but the back seems softer. Maybe that’s just because I’m dropping my 200+ lbs there. The sag in front is mostly in before I even get on. Does this sound normal?

[RichDesmond]

I would definitely back off on the emulator adjuster, to 2 turns. That will help some. What weight oil is in there?

On the front, you do get most of the sag from the bike's weight. Typically the bike sag is in the low 20's, total sag should be mid-30s

[glib]

I would definitely back off on the emulator adjuster, to 2 turns. That will help some. What weight oil is in there?

On the front, you do get most of the sag from the bike's weight. Typically the bike sag is in the low 20's, total sag should be mid-30s

Thank you. I haven’t ridden it yet, BTW, just trying to see what to expect.
Fork oil is PJ1 15 wt.

[Scott S]

Is the drilling of the internals covered in detail somewhere? Or are instructions included with the emulators?
And the spacer or bushings you guys are mentioning...thats Just for the larger 37mm forks, right? The 35 mm forks are a direct fit, correct?

Lastly, if my 550E forks do NOT have the anti dive, how is the install different than what's been covered here?

[glib]

Is the drilling of the internals covered in detail somewhere? Or are instructions included with the emulators?
And the spacer or bushings you guys are mentioning...thats Just for the larger 37mm forks, right? The 35 mm forks are a direct fit, correct?

Lastly, if my 550E forks do NOT have the anti dive, how is the install different than what's been covered here?

In the damper gallery at Race Tech, http://www.racetech.com/page/title/D...0Rod%20Gallery, find your dampers. Mine are 5-1. Click on "more details" to see the instructions I've followed. Someone else might address your other questions as I'm not familiar.

[dorkburger]

Mental exercise.....

I've been reading thru Race Tech's site and looking at my 1150 manual to get a better understanding of how all of this works... How and why pop up in my mind a lot when studying these things and one question often leads to another. The drilling of the extra holes in the damper rod and how it causes a bypass of the anti dive was the first.

Having a disassembled fork and the manual helped answer this. It seems that the bottom of the fork consists of two cavities separated by the PDF (anti dive) unit and the oil lock fitting that slides over the damping rod. Under compression, oil is pushed thru the PDF and into the bottom cavity where the damper rod holes are. It seems that the extra holes allow oil to enter the damping rod before its needing to pass thru the PDF.
http://Suzuki gs1150 pdf by Glen Brenner, on Flickr

Next question was if one were to omit the oil lock fitting (#18) the two cavities would appear to no longer be separated, and would this eliminate the need for the extra holes? Non anti dive forks don't require holes higher up, just opening of existing to provide more volume. I dropped the rod in minus the fitting and there appears to be clearance all around for oil to pass thru.
http://GS 1150 forks by Glen Brenner, on Flickr

Finally, R-T says keep the anti dive in place or use block off plates with a crossover channel or a harsh ride may result. Judging from the guts of a PDF, I'm thinking plates may be better.

Per Suzuki these are not serviceable. I opened up a leaker to see whats inside. Other then the plastic dial cracking, the rest was easily accessed. The top bonnet threads on. I may try to gut two and if they can still be made to seal put them back on. I'm not necessarily trying to keep the original look, but its a no cost mod. If that doesn't work I'll just use stock ones ...
http://Suzuki gs1150 pdf exploded view by Glen Brenner, on Flickr

In the end I'll install them as directed, but tend to wonder aloud a lot when learning about these things.... I enjoy the discovery process...

[glib]

I've been reading thru Race Tech's site and looking at my 1150 manual to get a better understanding of how all of this works... How and why pop up in my mind a lot when studying these things and one question often leads to another. The drilling of the extra holes in the damper rod and how it causes a bypass of the anti dive was the first.

Having a disassembled fork and the manual helped answer this. It seems that the bottom of the fork consists of two cavities separated by the PDF (anti dive) unit and the oil lock fitting that slides over the damping rod. Under compression, oil is pushed thru the PDF and into the bottom cavity where the damper rod holes are. It seems that the extra holes allow oil to enter the damping rod before its needing to pass thru the PDF.
http://Suzuki gs1150 pdf by Glen Brenner, on Flickr

Next question was if one were to omit the oil lock fitting (#18) the two cavities would appear to no longer be separated, and would this eliminate the need for the extra holes? Non anti dive forks don't require holes higher up, just opening of existing to provide more volume. I dropped the rod in minus the fitting and there appears to be clearance all around for oil to pass thru.
http://GS 1150 forks by Glen Brenner, on Flickr
In the end I'll install them as directed, but tend to wonder aloud a lot when learning about these things.... I enjoy the discovery process...

Interesting idea—leaving out the oil lock—but it is also the bottoming cone so it might lead to damage if the forks bottom out when it is absent. Just a guess really.

[dorkburger]

Aaaah, I didn't know that. As I said, its just a mental exercise, part of my learning. Just came in from the garage. I think I found a way to gut the PDF and keep the seals in place.... I'm getting too tired to think clearly though..... and its cold.

[glib]

I would definitely back off on the emulator adjuster, to 2 turns. That will help some. What weight oil is in there?

On the front, you do get most of the sag from the bike's weight. Typically the bike sag is in the low 20's, total sag should be mid-30s

So I got out for my first ride of the year today. I decided to see what the setup felt like before opening it up again. While the front felt well planted, it didn't move much. Must be a track setup. I'm going to take out those two turns and hopefully get out again tomorrow.

Almost forgot to mention that the front is now tight enough that I could feel the cupping of my front Sport Demon as I went around one smooth right sweeper.

[glib]

I reduced emulator spring pre-load to two turns and went out again yesterday and overall it felt great but did still seem somewhat harsh on harder bumps, like that seam of asphalt on either side of a bridge. Wondering if I should try 10 wt fork oil or go down to the 40# emulator springs or take out another half turn of pre-load in the current springs--or just leave it alone since it does handle nice. Sadly my brand new fork seals are leaking--which is doubly annoying since the old ones weren't but I decided doing the mods would provide a good opportunity for fresh seals.

Also I got some good video of my ride by putting my camera on top of the right turn signal stem but the sound was terrible because I had an exhaust leak from #3 where the bolts had backed out.

[mmattockx]

I reduced emulator spring pre-load to two turns and went out again yesterday and overall it felt great but did still seem somewhat harsh on harder bumps, like that seam of asphalt on either side of a bridge. Wondering if I should try 10 wt fork oil or go down to the 40# emulator springs or take out another half turn of pre-load in the current springs--or just leave it alone since it does handle nice.

Is the spring the stock one or stiffer? You have a couple functions to work with on the emulators. The oil weight determines how firm the low speed compression is (low damper speed, not road speed). This gives road feel. The emulator spring rate and preload determine how much force is required to pop the emulator off and how much it pops off over big hits like expansion joints. A soft spring with lots of preload will take a big bump to blow off but then will open a lot almost immediately. A stiffer spring with lots of preload will need a big hit to blow off and it won't open up very much, keeping the high speed compression quite firm. A stiff spring with little preload will blow off easily but not open very fast after that.

It sounds like you want it to blow off easier over the bigger bumps, so I would suggest going with the original spring as installed by RT (whatever colour that is, I don't recall) and setting it as per their instructions (2.5 turns of preload, I think), along with 10W oil as a starting point. I am running that setup along with Sonic 1.0kg/mm springs on my 1100E and the low speed compression is just a touch soft for my taste. I plan to try 12.5W oil next summer to see if that is the answer for me.


Mark

[glib]

Is the spring the stock one or stiffer? You have a couple functions to work with on the emulators. The oil weight determines how firm the low speed compression is (low damper speed, not road speed). This gives road feel. The emulator spring rate and preload determine how much force is required to pop the emulator off and how much it pops off over big hits like expansion joints. A soft spring with lots of preload will take a big bump to blow off but then will open a lot almost immediately. A stiffer spring with lots of preload will need a big hit to blow off and it won't open up very much, keeping the high speed compression quite firm. A stiff spring with little preload will blow off easily but not open very fast after that.

It sounds like you want it to blow off easier over the bigger bumps, so I would suggest going with the original spring as installed by RT (whatever colour that is, I don't recall) and setting it as per their instructions (2.5 turns of preload, I think), along with 10W oil as a starting point. I am running that setup along with Sonic 1.0kg/mm springs on my 1100E and the low speed compression is just a touch soft for my taste. I plan to try 12.5W oil next summer to see if that is the answer for me.


Mark

I've heard others received theirs with blue 40# springs but mine are yellow 64# probably because I said I wanted a tighter ride. Since I have to take them off again to put in a 2nd new set of seals, I think I'll take another half turn out of the current springs because I did really like the handling even if it could be more accommodating on the bigger bumps. I also need to replace my front tire. It's a Sport Demon with at least 6,000 miles (been cupping for a while) and I'm sure a new one will make a difference as well. Thanks for the breakdown on the characteristics of different settings. That makes good sense.