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all 4 plugs fouled; ideas please

  • Thread starter Thread starter trispeed
  • Start date Start date
Try checking the rubber inlet on your airbox in case it is crushed or has a piece of plastic or paper sucked into it. This may cause an over rich condition and cause all plugs to foul.
 
can someone with experience please tell me if 10.6 volts at the ignitor connector and at the coils is the problem. I have 12.7 at the battery and the starter solenoid.All of the other obvious stuff I have checked 3 times. All of the obvious stuff; there's no mongoose in the airbox, the battery isn't weak, the charging system is up to spec; the compression is up to spec, the carbs are clean and jetting is stock, the exhaust is stock, the plugs, wires and coils are new, HELP!
 
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10.6 volts at the coil is a bit low. More than 2 volts getting lost on the way to the coils is definitely not normal.
Now, just for a sanity check: Jump your bike up to a car battery (car engine must NOT be running).
Start the bike up.
Is there any improvement? If yes, that means the extra current from the car battery is overcoming whatever current draw is robbing those 2 volts from the coils. The current draw may be dirty/loose connections (perhaps in the ignition switch - where the key goes - see other posts regarding this). You need to fix that 2 volt drop. Typically there would be a 0.5 - 0.8 volt drop for a bike with fairly decent electrical connections - see other posts.
 
You say it will foul the plugs instantly, without the filter it's better but will still foul out. You've eliminated the intake as a problem. The only way this could happen is if the floats were set too deep and it was pulling raw fuel instead of atomized fuel, or if your choke is not releasing, or if your float valves are not shuting off the fuel flow, or orings around float valve leaking, or your airscrews are set way to rich(set them to 1 1/8 turns out from bottom), or the carbs are not getting atomizing air because of a blockage and is pulling raw fuel, try these first. Unless the bike was ridden every year for the last 25 years, the carbs will need seperated, stripped, cleaned, and fitted with new O rings, before it will ever run right. Someone before you might have drilled the jets to save buying new size jets. Do yourself a favor and get OEM filter for the airbox. If the carbs were clean, factory jetted, floats to specs, and airscrews set right and working properly, you'd be running lean and you would be in rejetting hell by now.
 
Make absolutely sure ALL the choke plungers and choke linkage is allowing the plungers to fully seat.
 
My guess is that he needs to turn his aie jets up some, I myself would try that, Just a thought.
 
trispeed said:
can someone with experience please tell me if 10.6 volts at the ignitor connector and at the coils is the problem. I have 12.7 at the battery and the starter solenoid.All of the other obvious stuff I have checked 3 times. All of the obvious stuff; there's no mongoose in the airbox, the battery isn't weak, the charging system is up to spec; the compression is up to spec, the carbs are clean and jetting is stock, the exhaust is stock, the plugs, wires and coils are new, HELP!
Click to expand...

I can tell you from experience, that 10.6 volts at the coils with the engine off/key on, is very acceptable. This will give you over 12 volts with the engine running.....Your compression is a little on the low side. If it were mine, I would pull the valve cover and make sure the cam timing is correct. If its off one tooth, it can wreak havoc on your fuel mixture and compression. Also inspect/change your engine oil as its probably full of fuel by now....Cam timing will affect all 4 cylinders the same......My GS1000, with VM carbs, runs so rich on the bottom end, that it is right on the verge of fuel fouling the spark plugs. I have narrowed the problem down to worn out needle jets and have yet to replace them.........BadBillyB
 
I was looking if anybody knew why the coil lead wouldn't be the same voltage as the battery. I'd measure my own bike, but I'm too lazy to take the seat and tank off. It would be a good piece of info to have.
 
thanks, I will examine all those elements, though remember the bike was running fine, degraded over a couple tanks worth of riding and now won't even start at all. The compression is good, the factory spec is 125- 185 meaning that anywhere in there is fine, as long as the variance between cylinders is less than 25.
How could all 4 carbs develop the same exact symptoms all by themselves?
That pretty much rules out float level, needles, seats, etc. It seems so incredibly unlikely that they would all go bad at the same exact time??
 
flyingace said:
I was looking if anybody knew why the coil lead wouldn't be the same voltage as the battery. I'd measure my own bike, but I'm too lazy to take the seat and tank off. It would be a good piece of info to have.
Click to expand...
Resistance + resistance+ old wiring + resistance + old switch connections + dirty fuse connections = Total Voltage drop in the ignition circuit...Good luck getting it down below 1 volt drop with stock wiring........I tried......BadBillyB
 
I had exactly the same thing happen once, due entirely to my cleaning and reoiling the K&N. Didn't go a mile before the engine would barely run. It is very easy to over-oil it. When you do, it chokes off the air flow, richens up the mixture, and fouls the plugs. When oiling the K&N (which I won't use anymore, went back to stock), put on a very light coating of oil and let it migrate its way around to cover the filter. This doesn't explain the fouling plugs with the air cleaner removed; it just relates my experience when I accidently, and unknowingly, over-oiled the K&N.
 
I actually have raw fuel dripping out of the airbox, now. Only when I've been cranking the starter for a bit. Not at all when just sitting, so i know the petcock works. I've had the tank off a dozen times with no leaking.
Would a float level/ valve seat issue cause this and if so;would it foul all 4 plugs?
This is really puzzling. I can see how many elements would cause an individual cylinder problem, but all four???
thanks for the help.
 
Taking into consideration all the things that you say are checked/OK, then the fact that it got worse and worse over a short time, it's a float level problem or a weak/faulty ignition problem.
Many PO's put in new plugs and this can help for a short time so they can sell the bike. The rich condition or weak ignition soon allows the plugs to foul again over a short time. In the case of weak ignition, it could get even worse since you've owned it so now a new set of plugs won't even help for a short time. A possibility is your timing plate being loose and it's rotated enough to cause the problem. Easy to check the timing. I'd try that first because the timing should be checked anyway and it's quick.
If it's strictly a float level problem, you can try placing the bike on the centerstand and SLOWLY draining a small amount from the bowls by loosening the bowl drain bolts, just to lower the levels some. Doesn't take much. Then temporarily remove the vacuum line at the petcock and be sure the petcock lever is set to on or reserve. Then clean off the plugs. Re-test. Your fuel leak also suggests incorrect float levels, but could be other things too. I mention float levels beause the PO could set them wrong or be trying to compensate for some other problem and it figures all four floats would be set wrong and all four cylinders would be effected the same. Another common cause of high bowl levels is rust particles preventing the float needle valves from sealing or regulating fuel level correctly. All four could be effected easily.
 
Just to add if you decide to try draining some fuel from the bowls...
Try to remove enough to lower the levels about 1/8" then test. Maybe a little more if it still won't start. The floats can only be over-adjusted so much, so if the bike still doesn't start by the time you've drained an estimated 1/4" of fuel, it doesn't figure to be strictly a level problem. I know it's difficult to guess how much you're lowering the levels, but if you drain small amounts at a time and test, this should expose a problem related to high levels. If the bike shows marked improvement and then replacing the vacuum line to allow fuel to flow brings back the problem, it's time to re-set the floats or be sure the float valves are sealing/clean.
 
Hi Keith, thanks for the tips, I will try them tomorrow when I get back to LA>
 
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