Comparing a GS650 to GS850, 750, 550 etc…

[Suzukian]

The standard GS850 is a much bigger bike than your 500/4. but it has gobs of torque, it's incredibly comfortable, and absorbs those bumpy roads. They handle well too. I would stick with the UJM standard models and avoid all "L" models, or that style from any bike manufacturer. IMHO

 

[gtem]

I just sold a nice low mile 81 GS650G last month, my impressions having recently ridden/owned a 1100E, 1100G, 750E is that the 650G was a good bit lighter than the others, shorter as well which made the stock tall-ish handlebar feel even goofier than on the other bikes. If you're tall, I'd consider test riding one before committing to buying. Should be a good step up in power from your CB500F without feeling much if any heavier. The 650Gs were known to get quite good mileage too, quite the opposite from 500-4 Hondas which I've always heard were quite thirsty.

Reliability wise? If it's been gone through recently and gone through well, sure, they're commendably reliable. BUT it's still a 40+ year old motorcycle.

IMO the sweet spot for you would be finding something 20ish years old versus 40 years old like a Bandit 600, Seca II, EX500 Ninja something kind of unloved/undervalued like a 650 Ninja or Versys, maybe even a Kawasaki KLR650 (if you're okay with a bit less top end power). All are really nice "all arounder" bikes that have the benefit of being new enough where you're not dealing with age related issues with wiring, seals, etc.

 

[Guest]

I just sold a nice low mile 81 GS650G last month, my impressions having recently ridden/owned a 1100E, 1100G, 750E is that the 650G was a good bit lighter than the others, shorter as well which made the stock tall-ish handlebar feel even goofier than on the other bikes. If you're tall, I'd consider test riding one before committing to buying. Should be a good step up in power from your CB500F without feeling much if any heavier. The 650Gs were known to get quite good mileage too, quite the opposite from 500-4 Hondas which I've always heard were quite thirsty.

Reliability wise? If it's been gone through recently and gone through well, sure, they're commendably reliable. BUT it's still a 40+ year old motorcycle.

IMO the sweet spot for you would be finding something 20ish years old versus 40 years old like a Bandit 600, Seca II, EX500 Ninja something kind of unloved/undervalued like a 650 Ninja or Versys, maybe even a Kawasaki KLR650 (if you're okay with a bit less top end power). All are really nice "all arounder" bikes that have the benefit of being new enough where you're not dealing with age related issues with wiring, seals, etc.

Thanks! Your model comparison kind of confirmed my educated guess, which is based on my Honda experience. I can’t quite explain why, but the GS650 is the one I keep thinking about, though I wouldn’t kick any of them out of bed. I think the 650 is a good enough step up from my 500/4 without having too much use case crossover with my Ducati ST2. My thinking is that old UJMs are small, cheap, and simple enough that I don’t mind having more than one, and I’d like to start using the Honda for joy rides and not commuting. So another newer, better UJM would be a good stablemate and take some pressure off the Honda.

I read in a period review (i think) that the Suzuki fours had a fuel economy advantage due to the TCCS head design. That’s a bonus for me, my little 500/4 gets upper 30s to 40 mpg, and has a small tank. I don’t mind it because I’m ready for a break way before 120 miles anyway, but I’m always trying to kid myself that the bikes are saving me gas money and that gets harder to rationalize with crappy mpgs! Even my fuel injected Ducati ST2 only achieves 40 mpg. At least if has a bigger tank. Anyway, fuel economy is something I always consider.
Which brings me to your last point: getting something newer. I have been a fan of Bandits and considered one of those before buying my Duc. For some reason the air cooled Bandit 1200 really appeals to me. But it seems like there isn’t much fuel economy to be had there and it might be too close in purpose to my Duc…

But, I don’t know guys, maybe it’s time to give up on the Duc since it’s starting to be a maintenance PITA. And as much as I love that 2 valve twin, I kind of miss the whirr of an air cooled four. I also had a Transalp for a few years that I completely loved, but after a while I had the same longing for that spinny four cylinder feel Of course the ST2 feels light and handles so freaking good….

Anyway thanks for indulging me, I guess I have some soul searching to do over the winter!

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

none of the GS 650s use the TSCC 4-valve design. They are all 2-valve/cylinder engines.

 

[gtem]

none of the GS 650s use the TSCC 4-valve design. They are all 2-valve/cylinder engines.

IIRC the 650 head had a sort of two valve variant of the twin-swirl design (single swirl?) that allows them to run a flat top piston with higher compression ratio than the older 8 valve GSes and get really good mpg (Cycle World saw just short of 60mpg with their 650G).

 

[Guest]

Sorry ya’all, I don’t have a good understanding of combustion chamber design, so I confused TCCS with “twin dome.” Here’s a period review from
Cycle World I was referencing:

https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1981/6/1/suzuki-gs65og

“Like the 550, the 650 uses only two valves per cylinder, but the combustion chamber is an all new design, machined into what Suzuki calls a Twin-Dome chamber.

The small combustion chamber has been cut into three concave pockets, one for each valve and one for the spark plug. The valves are slightly offset in the chamber with the exhaust valve closer to the center of the engine. In addition to helping swirl the incoming mixture, this offset allows the spark plug to crowd in closer to the center of the combustion chamber. Central location of the plug, as in fourvalve heads, is not possible, but by using the small D-type (12mm) plug and moving the exhaust valve slightly inward, a near central location is possible for balanced flame propagation.

The very small combustion chamber gives the engine a high 9.5:1 compression ratio, even with the use of relatively flat topped pistons, up from 8.6:1 on the 550, which uses a more heavily domed piston. Suzuki says the flatter piston produces better power, the piston dome creating less interference with the gas flow dynamics of the incoming mixture. This combustion efficiency and clean burning means the engine can run a high compression ratio on low-lead gas without detonation, while giving excellent fuel mileage. We can’t argue with the results; we were unable to provoke any pinging, even doing heavyhanded roll ons using super low-cal gas, and our average mileage was just a shade under 60 mpg.”

 

[gtem]

Thanks! Your model comparison kind of confirmed my educated guess, which is based on my Honda experience. I can’t quite explain why, but the GS650 is the one I keep thinking about, though I wouldn’t kick any of them out of bed. I think the 650 is a good enough step up from my 500/4 without having too much use case crossover with my Ducati ST2. My thinking is that old UJMs are small, cheap, and simple enough that I don’t mind having more than one, and I’d like to start using the Honda for joy rides and not commuting. So another newer, better UJM would be a good stablemate and take some pressure off the Honda.

I read in a period review (i think) that the Suzuki fours had a fuel economy advantage due to the TCCS head design. That’s a bonus for me, my little 500/4 gets upper 30s to 40 mpg, and has a small tank. I don’t mind it because I’m ready for a break way before 120 miles anyway, but I’m always trying to kid myself that the bikes are saving me gas money and that gets harder to rationalize with crappy mpgs! Even my fuel injected Ducati ST2 only achieves 40 mpg. At least if has a bigger tank. Anyway, fuel economy is something I always consider.
Which brings me to your last point: getting something newer. I have been a fan of Bandits and considered one of those before buying my Duc. For some reason the air cooled Bandit 1200 really appeals to me. But it seems like there isn’t much fuel economy to be had there and it might be too close in purpose to my Duc…

But, I don’t know guys, maybe it’s time to give up on the Duc since it’s starting to be a maintenance PITA. And as much as I love that 2 valve twin, I kind of miss the whirr of an air cooled four. I also had a Transalp for a few years that I completely loved, but after a while I had the same longing for that spinny four cylinder feel Of course the ST2 feels light and handles so freaking good….

Anyway thanks for indulging me, I guess I have some soul searching to do over the winter!

I commiserate completely. In fact, I have a middleweight 500cc UJM (my Yamaha XS500), a Suzuki GS, and a Bandit 1200 in my fleet. I won't even mention the Yamaha XS1100E I picked up this summer lol. I'm likewise doing some soul searching to figure out how to best thin the fleet. I definitely have a bit too much "overlap" at the moment. Overall, I find my naked 2002 Bandit to be my go-to bike and if I could only have one that would be it. Mileage isn't stellar, especially as mine's been rejetted for a Holeshot slip on, but riding like a sane person 40-42mpg is to be expected. I suspect with stock getting it would be closer to 45 when not ridden "sportingly."

IMO if you like reliable 4cyl japanese bikes, like UJMs, and are considering Bandits already, my move would be to sell the Ducati and pick up a Bandit 1200. Unless you'll really miss the character of that italian V-twin, you'll be getting something that covers the "newer, reliable" base nicely, certainly plenty of power, and IMO you still get the "feel" of a classic GS with the Bandit. Riding my Bandit back to back with my 1100E feels more similar than say riding the GS1100E and my Yamaha XS1100.