Frozen engine?

[Dujet]

Ok I'm going to try and put as much detail in here as possible so please be patient when reading. I just bought an 81 GS450t as my first bike. When i bought it the seller said that he had been riding it just a few days ago and the only thing that needed to be repaired was the starter. When i bought the bike i checked some of the more basic things and it would roll while in gear just fine so i didn't think the engine was locked up. I had the starter rebuilt and bought a new battery for it because the old one wasn't holding a charge very long. I put everything on and now when i try and start it I hear two clicks one from the starter solenoid and one from the starter. I've tested both and both work fine. Now the bike won't roll in gear at all. I took the right cover off and tried to turn it by hand and couldn't. I've checked that I aligned the starter up correctly with the gears and I've taken out the spark plugs to check for a compression lock and to make sure there wasn't gas inside. At this point I'm pretty much at the end of my mechanical knowledge so I'm looking for help. I'm going to try PB oil in the spark plug holes for a couple of days, but I don't know how the engine could be frozen after just being free a couple of days ago. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[spyug]

If it turned over a few days ago it is not a frozen cylinder but more likely transmission related. Are you able to put it up on a bike lift or at least on the centerstand possibly elevated to get the rear wheel off the ground? If you can, see if you can turn the rear wheel by hand. Using the gear selector with the key turned on try and find neutral, the green light will show and you should be able to turn the wheel easily. Then try moving the gear selector to 1st gear and try and turn the wheel. It should be difficult but you should get movement. Then try finding second gear and up, turning the wheel in each gear. You don't need to use the clutch for this.

I'm going to bet that you will have difficulty finding one or more gears.

With the bike in neutral again try to turn the crank by hand to confirm the engine is free.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

welcome aboard by the way.

Spyug

 

[Dujet]

Thanks for the welcome.
Ok, I put it up on the center stand, and the wheel turns freely in neutral, but it doesn't turn at all in any of the other six gears. Any advice on where to go next?

 

[tom203]

Maybe the PO was not quite right
".....the only thing that needed to be repaired was the starter"
maybe starter clutch is locked up, so pop stater motor out and see if it turns over in gear, or just take stator cover off and investigate. But first make sure your starter motor is turning CCW (looking at shaft end from left side of bike)

 

[Guest]

Or the fuel petcock has been leaking by and it is full of gas and hydro locked . Check your oil see if it is full of gas, pull the plugs and see if it will turn , put it on the center stand in 5th gear and try it.

 

[GSXR7ED]

PTI--This is great insight for analysis. Thanks to respondents and to the OP; I'm sure you will figure it out.





Ed

 

[Dujet]

Wow thanks for all the advice, you guys are great.
I've taken the stator cover off and if i remove the gear connecting the starter to the other gears the starter turns freely. However i cant move the main gear by hand even in neutral. Also I can't turn the engine by hand from the right side either. When i drained the oil it did smell heavily of gas. If it's hydro locked what do i do?

 

[Steve]

If it's hydro locked what do i do?

Remove the spark plugs, carefully turn the crank, using the nut on the right end.

If it is hydrolocked, there will be gas spraying out the spark plug holes, so be careful.

.

 

[Dujet]

I removed the spark plugs and tried to turn the motor by hand with the nut on the right, but i couldn't budge it in any gear. Any more suggestions?

 

[tom203]

Trying tapping on flywheel/rotor with mallet- this shouldn't do anything, BUT hammering might intimidate something. While you got the small intermediate gear out, check starter motor rotation (should be CCW )- sometimes rebuilding alters direction.

 

[Guest]

Trying tapping on flywheel/rotor with mallet- this shouldn't do anything, BUT hammering might intimidate something. While you got the small intermediate gear out, check starter motor rotation (should be CCW )- sometimes rebuilding alters direction.

DON"T HIT THE ROTOR WITH A MALLET, you could break the magnets.

 

[Dujet]

I've tapped at it for almost an hour now, not at the rotor i'm not crazy but just at the nuts on the right and left side, to no avail. The starter is rotating ccw. I took the intermediate gear out and the starter spins freely. the bigger gear turns clockwise but not counter clockwise. i can't turn the engine in neutral or sixth gear. I'm not having trouble finding any of the gears the engine simply won't turn no matter how hard i try.

 

[tom203]

DON"T HIT THE ROTOR WITH A MALLET, you could break the magnets.

I did say "tapping"- something is stuck somehow, somewhere- makes me think that crank got turned backwards and camchain is hung up .

 

[tom203]

The starter is rotating ccw. I took the intermediate gear out and the starter spins freely. the bigger gear turns clockwise but not counter clockwise. .

This means the starter clutch is OK (By OK, I mean it's not stuck)- I'd pull the cam cover and investigate the camchain.

 

[Guest]

DON"T HIT THE ROTOR WITH A MALLET, you could break the magnets.

VERY EASILY!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Does the crank rock just a bit? like maybe 1/16 of an inch? or is is solid? Where are the piston's located at the moment? If they are 1 up and 1 down or close to center then you can usually rock the crank a bit back and forth and in that case the piston's are stuck and that would be an idea what would be stopping it.

I have seen camshafts starved of good oil do this. When they heat up from no lubrication ( gas mixed in oil ) the cam's seize to the caps and head.

Into the cam cover is your next stop.

Another thing you can try that would say if its top or bottom end would be to rotate the knob on the timing chain tensioner and turn the crankshaft backwards.

If it moves at all that's just because the crank is taking up the slack in the timing chain and the top end is the problem. If nothing happens, Take a look anyways but its more likely bottom end.


Pic's help Video is better

 

[Jan]

From your information it sounds as it is the engine part (crankshaft, connecting rods, cam chain or cham shaft) that have the problem.

To make it compleately clear if you have a problem with your transmission, you could strip your clutch lever to the handle, to permanently disengage the clutch, then try to make the gear check, can you now turn the rear wheel in all gears? If you can, and I guess that it is a yes, then your gearbox will hopefully be OK.
The other information you gave - the oil was smelling of gasoline - that is no good, if the engine have been running on this lubrication. (This thin mixture is not capable to lift the journals clear of the bearing shells). If you still have the oil/gas mixture stored somewhere, you should try to mesh it in a fine mesh or maybee a coffie filter, just to check if there is metal partickles in it - this can indicate brakedown of bearings.

The most important reason for this gasoline ended up in your crank case, is because the fuel overflow hose placed on the T-pipe between the carbs is pointion upwards(or slightly up) and the drain hose is making a nice up-bend before it ends up right in front of your rear wheel. The T-piece must point straight down! Othervise a leaking petcock or a petcock placed in "prime" position will lead gasoline into the air intake valve, and it will slowly flow down into the gearbox until the gear box is full.

As Mekanix suggest start to disassemble the engine from top to see where the problem is. You can also check if you can turn the crank with the clutch disengaged, if not you have to take the engine apart.


Best regards
Jan