Fuel level tool

[RobertGS]

I'm digging into my VM carbs on my 79 850 soon and would like to check the fuel levels in the bowls before I tear them down. z1 is out of stock on the adapter that attaches a tube to the float drain.

I've checked a couple of fastener places, crappy tire etc...with no luck for the M6 0.75 thread on one side and nipple for tubing on the other.

Any ideas? I'm in Toronto

 

[Gorminrider]

Funny you should ask. I was just looking at this funky device in my pictures-oh, so nasty-but you can improve...the main idea is this:

Here's how to fit the tube to your bowl drains

 

[Nessism]

I made adapters by taking an allen head screw of the proper thread size and drilling down into the socket and out the bottom of the threads. Then take a piece of common copper or aluminum tubing and JB Weld it into the socket.

 

[Gorminrider]

It just occurred to me that the battery if you still have the wet cell type has a piece of suitable breather tube per the stretch/shrink above.
Not everybody has a hoard of plastic pipe , but a lot of motorcycles have these as reasonably sacrificial in a pinch ...

 

[RobertGS]

Thanks for the replys. I'm leaning towards the drilling out the allen head screw option at the moment. That way I've got the tools for the future...

 

[Steve]

I have never seen that M6 x 0.75 thread used in anything.

I have seen a 0.8 pitch and a 0.5 pitch, but never a 0.75. :-k

.

 

[RobertGS]

Not sure how to direct to other threads but the M6 0.75 for the drain screw was mentioned in the thread below.
If anyone can confirm the thread that would be great. The parts fiche doesn't tell me anything.
Part number for the drain screw is 13247-45010

I've found a place nearby that has M6 0.75 with socket on top which I think might work well for drilling and attaching tubing... Don't want to get the wrong size.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...dapter/page3&highlight=fuel+level,+tool,+carb

 

[tkent02]

If you have a moto wrecking yard nearby you can pull out a few drain plugs from old dead carbs, drill them and add a tube.

 

[eil]

I don't have the part number handy but McMaster sells zerk fittings that screw right into the float bowl. Remove the spring and ball, attach your hose, and away you go.

 

[Guest]

Hey Robert, how come you're pulling those carbs apart? They were all tested and leveled when I had them here, they shouldn't need anything. Just curious. As well, the brass choke cable holder that is on your carbs will fit onto your float bowl and you just attach a clear tubing to it, works great.

http://www.partsoutlaw.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d40139f8700230d8b4e464/carburetor


part number 64/65

 

[RobertGS]

Hey, fantastic Rob that's great about the choke cable holder I'll give it a try.

I never did solve the 3 and 4 plug sooty issue. No combinations of fuel / air screws seemed to really make a difference.
I've switched out the petcock from the Pingle to a brand new susuki petcock. Exact same plug situation with both petcocks.

It's bad enough that with new plugs, after not too long riding (under 100km) those plugs are so sooty it affects idle and won't run right.

Timing checked (electronic)
Valves just checked, at
.01, .095, .08 and .07 for the Exhaust (1 to 4)
.055, .055, .08 and .08 for the Intakes (1 to 4)

So I'm thinking up a shim size for the 1 and 2 exhaust
Mulling over whether the 3 and 4 intakes at .08 is an issue? Seems in spec but should I try to bring them down to .03?

Anyway, that's why I'm thinking of checking the float levels and maybe just tearing them down, dipping etc...

And it's got me thinking maybe the seats and float needles are aftermarket?

Oh and one other thing that I'm grasping may be involved. The PO replaced the fuel connectors between the Carbs (the T and the two other connectors between 1-2 and 3-4 with brass ones with o-rings. Very nice, except he forgot to replace the one between 3 and 4... I checked the sizes and the new one seems to have the same cross-section as the old...but that's been bugging me too given the issues with 3 and 4, so I'd like to get that fuel connector in there since I still have it lying around.

What do you think?

 

[Guest]

Ahh...that all makes good sense. You might want to check your spark getting to 3 & 4 as well. I can't remember if you had new coils with new plug wires and caps or not. Don't worry about the .08, better to be on the loose side than the tight one. Possibly he put in aftermarket float seats and needles but if they look good I can't imagine they're causing a problem, but you never know. One thing about the float heights, I check them with the carbs in a vise and level, some guys swear on checking them on the bike on the centre stand saying it's 100% accurate that way. The only real issue's that can happen with the fuel connectors is that they leak, if they don't they are fine, they're so big that they'll never restrict fuel at all. The brass ones are nice as you can replace the orings, the stock ones didn't have that option. Z1 enterprises sells aluminum ones that are the same. I'll be curious to hear about what is on the bike for coils and plug wires and caps.

 

[RobertGS]

Hmm good point on the spark. I did try checking spark a couple of weeks back but my first time trying and I didn't get it done properly Wanted new plugs to try again and then just forgot about it and pulled the carbs.

The coils are original. Not sure about the plugs and caps. They look in good shape but not sure how to tell.

So at this point, with the cam cover off, carbs out but not disassembled. O-rings on the way... I'm wondering what order I should tackle this in.

Could adjust those two exhaust valve clearances, check float heights (It looks like #4 is bang on 4mm below and #3 appears to be only 1mm below... so 2 to 3 mm too high..) Anyway could finish checking heights and adjust those. Then put it back together and check the spark/coils properly. I assume I need it back together to do the spark /coil check?

 

[Guest]

the caps can be tested for resistance, as can the primary and secondary on the coils. I've known enough guys that have had fouling plugs, or a bit of a rough idle and the problem seems to be directed to just one or two cylinders, new caps and problem gone. I can't believe that bike did not come with new caps though. To test the spark you don't need the carbs on, just take a plug wire and put a spark plug in it, rest it again the engine somewhere so that when you can hit the start button you will be able to look at the blue spark on the plug, best done in the shade/darker area of course. keep in mind, once you adjust the valves you will need to vacuum synch your carbs again. What I like to do with my stock coils is dig out the old plug wires and put in new ones, that or you just buy a nice set of dyna green coils with new wires, that's the best way to get a strong spark to your plugs which might be your issue. If it were me and I was planning on keeping this bike for ever I'd be shelling out for a new set of Dyna coils, same reason you put in a dyna ignition, because then you're done with it. In respect to order of doing things, since you already have the valve cover off, do the valve shims (as long as you have a vacuum gauge to set the carbs, if you don't then don't touch the valve shims as they are close enough), then I would check your spark at the coils/put on new caps if it looks/tests suspicious fix/replace it and button things back up and not even touch the carbs and see what she runs like. It's easy enough to pull the carbs and dig into them afterwards. That or rebuild them/check float levels etc...

 

[RobertGS]

Thanks, I think I'll get those new coils, wires and caps. In the meantime I'll do the resistance and spark checks you mentioned just to see. A bit backwards I know but the good riding time is passing by and I agree I'll feel better with those new coils.

I'll put in the new fuel connector between 3 and 4, adjust the floats. Leave the carb cleaning for now, replace the 2 valve shims, balance the carbs(bench and running) and see how it runs and report back. The parts will take a while so stay tuned.

 

[RobertGS]

Still waiting on the new dyna green coils, wires and NGK caps.

Opened up the float bowls and found this crud on #3 float. #1 as you can see was a lot cleaner. 2 and 4 were not great.

So I decided to clean then per the GS forum process. Taken apart, dipped and spayed and new O rings from Mr. Barr. The intake boot O-rings were looking very flat and shrivelled.

AZR's suggestion of using the Brass choke cable nut for the fuel level tool worked well. What I found interesting was that the float heights didn't seem to match up with the fuel levels measured. Note I measured the fuel levels with the bike not running which I know is not per the manual.
Anyway I'm wondering if folks think crud like this on the floats might affect the boyancy (sp?) of the floats.

Carbs are back together, bench synced, floats all at 24mm now, float needles and seats looked ok, springs seemed strong. Waiting for float bowl gaskets along with the coils/wires to get it all buttoned up. Since I have the cam cover off I confirmed the cam chain timing is ok. Hopefully parts arrive today or tomorrow and I can put it back together, sync the carbs with a sync tool, and see if it runs better.

Oh, old coils checked out ok resistance wise, but two of the 4 plug caps were 10K Ohm (cylinders 2 and 3)and two 5K Ohm. I'm thinking maybe this was a bit of a problem too.

 

[RobertGS]

So far so good. (sorry for no pictures. Gotta remember to do that).

Dyna green coils in. Nice red HT wires and new caps.

Had to order Susuki bowl gaskets when the ones ordered from Z1 didn't fit. They were too large. Snow city cycle in Toronto got them in 2 days. Great place.

Got it all buttoned up, Carbs balanced timing checked (Dyna S)

A few drops of gas from carb 3 and/or 4 after filling them with gas. slightly tightened the float bowl screws that I could reach and not a drop since.

She's running pretty good. Much smoother idle, more power, a lot less "popping" which was fairly constant before. There is still some popping on strong deceleration. Just had my first ride so we'll see. The idle crept up to just under 2000 after it was warm.. I haven't adjusted air/fuel yet. Set them all at 3/4 out for fuel and 1 and half out for air. So I'll check the plugs when I get home from work and this weekend read up on the highest idle method and see if that further improves the running and keeps the idle from creeping up??

So fingers crossed I'm headed towards just tweeting things.

I'm paranoid about oil level since I think I had gas in the oil before all this work on it (I"m not entirely positive). So I'm imagining that the level went up after the ride... Just nerves I think. I"ll feel better after getting it in the garage tonight on the same spot and checking the level.

 

[chuck hahn]

Made mine out of an old drain plug. Drilled a hole down the center and then used the bench grinder to grind it down till it fit inside some fish tank air hose.