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Getting it running well

  • Thread starter Thread starter AcidFaucet
  • Start date Start date
A

AcidFaucet

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So I have my kat running 'well' (as far as I would have known) and finally felt comfortable with taking her for a test run. She was seeming perfectly fine at a stand still.

When dropped into gear the RPMs dive low and the early throttle is initially hesitant. After just a few (less than 4) laps through a deserted parking lot, the RPMs refused to come down as the throttle was let off. Was using 40 pilots, 102.5 mains, and 150 air jets, 2.5 turns out.

Butterflies are reasonably bench synced (by violin string). I went on an airleak hunt and wrapped the airbox boots in weatherstripping, sprayed everything down with ether and found nothing. Nowhere could I get a rise in RPMs, I tried the join between filter "crate thingy" and airbox, the airbox boots, the drain tees.

So then I tried 42.5 pilots, 110 mains, and 140 air jets at 1.5 turns on the air needle ... it entered the 'hanging idle' and died shortly after not in an overrev, but in a "it just dipped out" as I let the clutch out. It seemed to want to go higher on the RPMs than previous try. Once I started it up again. Adjusting the idle screw results in either a racing idle or imminent death. There was some dark smoke out of the exhaust once I fired her back up and rode her home.

Plugs are black. Except cylinder one, who looks kind of between lean and healthy.

Checked the valves, the intake on cylinder 4 I'd like to have changed out but couldn't for the life of me spin the bucket to get at the tab. Anyone have any advice on spinning those?

Pulling the clutch results in the RPMs rising, up until a point where it drowns.

I'm definitely going to go ahead and replace my #1 and #2 airbox boots, along with the intake boots at the end of the month.

This is the first time the bike has actually been ridden since last year, so may this clear itself out? And one of the first few times it's been ran since changing the intake o-rings, so could this go away on it's own once it's been spun around for a while or should I be fiddling the air screws and float heights?
 
Wrong direction

Hanging idle means you've got air leaks.

Does your bike shave mods to the exhaust or airbox?
 
It's looks like it might be the carb slides. Springs inside clearly weren't OEM and if the PO had any lube on the slides I would've certainly cleaned it off. Cylinder 1 is sticking the worst, and that's the uber lean one. So I assume that once I'm running her solid with strong air flow that they're going up and the cylinder is managing to draw enough air that they won't return.

Swapping springs with those in a spare carb (which visually match the springs in the carb cleanup pictures), recleaning the slides, and lubing with a touch of 0x30 tomorrow.

Exhaust is a 4-1 and airfilter is the K&N drop in.
 
AcidFaucet said:
Was using 40 pilots, 102.5 mains, and 150 air jets, 2.5 turns out.

...

So then I tried 42.5 pilots, 110 mains, and 140 air jets at 1.5 turns on the air needle ...

... Anyone have any advice
Click to expand...
My only advice is this:
Yes, it takes longer (actually quite a bit longer), but CHANGE ONLY ONE THING AT A TIME. :eek:

You just changed FOUR things in one fell swoop, which ONE do you think caused the difference? :-k

You are having problems spinning a bucket to check a shim?
Are you sure you have the cams in the right position?

The cams are supposed to be in specific positions to check the clearances, but only need to have the lobes pointing away from the valve if you are using the "special tool" to depress the bucket to pull the shim. If you are using the "zip-tie method", you don't need to start with the buckets or the cams in any special position. The procedure is outlined in the paper found on BassCliff's site. Did you get your "welcome package" from him yet? (I saw you acknowledge getting it a few weeks ago.) Did you read through it?

By the way, you will want to adjust your valves BEFORE doing any carb tuning. Once you find the procedure to check and adjust your valves, I will invite you to direct your attention to the last part of my sig. It's just one more tool that can be added to the arsenal.

Also, before doing any carb tuning, you want to make sure your carbs are completely clean (dipped, not sprayed) and put back together with new o-rings. Until you have a known, firm mechanical foundation, any fiddling with jetting is merely an exercise in futility.

One last thing: you are asking about jetting advice for your Kat. WHICH ONE???
They made several models, and they all had different jetting, so it helps to know which bike we are discussing.

.
 
550M model. Valves have been adjusted (positive on the cam position), intake o-rings replaced, intake boots inspected off the bike, air box weatherstripped. Sprayed enough ether to get a heavy buzz while looking for air leaks.

I left out a lot of details that I probably shouldn't have. I had gone through the full range of the air screws on the larger jets which are definitely too rich. In a previous thread chef had suggested using (out of what jets I had available) 40 pilot and 102.5 main, which is definitely the happier configuration, and the one I'll work off of.

When it's cold or warm it'll idle just fine, I give it a couple of whirls around.

I've been going down through http://www.randakks.com/TechTip30.htm and knocking item after item out. I think I'm on the right track.
 
Hi,

Not that I have anything against Hondas, but you should go through the maintenance lists in your "mega-welcome" and give your Kat some Suzuki lovin'. :)

Everything starts with properly cleaned carbs, new intake O-rings, possibly new intake boots, etc. Take no shortcuts and your bike will run like new.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
After double checking everything, slides going down smoothly with the right springs, and the smaller checking all is well ... minus ... another ether buzz that this time found leaks at the intake boot, right where the carb goes in. It's fully seated in there ... I'm wondering if I'm clamping down tight enough to fold them up. Jumped from 1400~ to 5-6k and that this time the fold ups where in more accessible spots.

Makes sense, the carbs were checking out really well, I'm pretty confident in their cleanliness, they aren't holy ... but they don't have pantera tickets either. Re-bench-synced them before using a small allen key (not as willing to wiggle into places like the violin string) and that made a difference. I was close before, but not nearly close enough.

Until that air-leak crops up the bike idles great.

I'm calling a nearby dealership tomorrow to see about getting some fresh intake boots and another set of intake o-rings.

In the meantime I noticed Redman's thread "This the intake leak - high idle problem" and noticed that bit about grease on the lip. Is that or maybe wrapping it in some high temp tape a viable option for solving the problem for maybe 20 minutes or so long enough for me to look for hints of other issues that exist? While in the mood of replacing stuff I might as well try to chalk up enough to keep me busy a full weekend.

@BassCliff, I intend on seeing this run like new.
 
Brand new intake boots, 2 new airbox boots, all new intake-o-rings and I have every single valve in spec now (thanks to a crazy mechanics pick bent in all sorts of weird ways).

Looks promising, when I tried to start it today after the replacements, I flooded it. It's never flooded once since I've owned it.
 
The replacements in my previous post resolved the problem. She's very ride-able and I'm going to do another valve check in a few days before doing a sync. Thanks to everyone for the help!

Note: I haven't noticed a means to append the title of this thread with [SOLVED] so if a moderator is able to do it or someone can tell me how to ... please do.
 
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