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grinding/meshing/clanking noise,82 gs850glz

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
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Anonymous

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i've done much reading here but nothing specific to my problem. my 82 gs850glz has 12k easy miles and as far as i know hasn't been stored for any length of time. i
've owned for 2 weeks now. the bike looks and runs excellent except for: at idle in neutral(usually after warm-up), with the clutch lever in or out(much worse when clutch lever out) i get a fairly loud grinding/clanking noise from the tranny/clutch area(seems more on left side but hard to tell). as i idle with the clutch lever out i begin to hear the noise. however,when i then lean the bike to the right the noise gets much louder. the noise lessens when leaned to the left. when i put it in gear the noise disappears(whether leaned right or left). when driving,there is no noise(possibly, but a little-hard to tell). when idling,if i lightly pull or press on the shifter with my hand and create a gear mesh grind,i can kinda feel the noise in my hand, and it sounds the same as my clanky noise. i rebuilt the starterclutch(rollers,plungers,springs)to no avail.three suzuki techs ruled out cams,valves,chain,top end, exaust pipe rattle. one tech used a stethoscope and couldn't pinpoint it but said to start with clutch, then tranny disassembly. it sounds like a gear sliding on a shaft and as i lean to the right it starts to mesh and grind. the more i rev the engine(in neutral),the louder the noise. i occasionally find a false neutral between 3rd & 4th, and 4th & 5th. tech said i'm still getting used to the bike, dont worry about that.as a sidenote:should the gear on the starter motor itself(not the idle gears or starter clutch gear)have back and forth play(about 1/4") ? thanks for any help..
 
grinding,meshing,clanking update

grinding,meshing,clanking update

82 gs850glz update: i inspected clutch and found hub nut loose. otherwise clutch looks excellent. i tightened the nut,reassebbled, and started engine only to have the same problem explained prior. i now have the engine ready to be pulled from the frame which i'll do tomorrow with help lifting. then i'll get into the tranny. i see shiny shavings (aluminum?) in my last oil change. based on my previous post describing my problem, does anyone have any insight. thanks again
 
Shiny things in the oil! Not good. Just a guess (of course), but the shift forks could be bent a bit. The transmission gears would then be slightly offset from their intended positions. There is a small amount of 'slop' in the transmission fork to slider gear. If it's offset a bit, then the slop could cause the gears to contact each other when in neutral when the bike is tilted.

Just a guess. BTW, this is probably the least expensive scenario I can think of - so that is good news.
 
grinding/meshing 2nd update

grinding/meshing 2nd update

2nd update: with the engine off the bike & the cases split, i found a broken lockwasher and maybe a circlip from the countershaft(i believe) laying in the cases. some countershaft gears are ruined as far as their dogs. i havn't disassembled either shaft yet. the transmission drive shaft gears look ok so far. the shift forks dont look bent but this is the furthest i've ever been into an engine so i dont know how exacting the forks should be. my clymer book says some gears must be changed as a set, i'm open to suggestions otherwise. tomorrow i'll determine which gears are whipped. i was hoping i could just rebuild the countershaft.any help is welcome.
 
The transmission consists of drive and driven gears. When you say countershaft gears, do you mean the driven or output shaft?

Are the dogs rounded or chipped?

Can you post any pictures?

You will not be able to disassemble the transmission shafts and gears without a hydraulic press. The easiest way around this may be to shop for another transmission. Replacing the gears (new) can be pretty expensive. On top of that some of them are pressed onto their respective shafts and are clearanced as such. Not a job for most home mechanics.

Be sure to pull the crank and check the bearings for smooth operation.

One last question - Are there many bits of metal in the oil pan?
 
gearset on 82 gs850glz

gearset on 82 gs850glz

first, when i reply back to you should i click "private message" or "post reply". i'm new here and so far i'm using "post reply". thanks for your help with my tranny trouble. ok, my clymer book calls the transmission shaft closest to the crankshaft "the countershaft". the clutch rides on this one. it's the longer of the 2 shafts and has the thick spring on its left side. i believe you're calling it the drive. now, my clymer calls the remaining shaft the "driveshaft gearset". thats the one that the secondary drive(bevel gear) attaches to. my problems are on the shaft closest to the crankshaft. after 11+ hours tearing it apart today, i decided tomorrow to get a detailed look and identify which gears(ie: 3rd, 4th,etc), and exact dog damage. i defientely seen rounded dogs but can't say if chipped. pretty bad looking, but it never slipped out of gear. there's a notched lockwasher about 1 1/4" round that looks like the 6 or so pieces i found scatterd in the engine. possibly a clip also.before splitting the cases, as i turned the engine upside down, i heard metal scattering inside. oil pan wasn't easily accessable prior to flipping motor. i used an antena magnet and retrieved all metal, hopefully. i want to flush the gap between the cylinder & piston or find a thinner magnet. you're right, the countershaft needs a spring compressor tool and tolerance expertise. the other shaft is clips and slide on/off gears. i'll call local suzuki dealer for price(scary) & availability tomorrow. any suggestions on other bikes & years i can use gearsets from,or where to get them? have you ever had to do a tranny job? it's 12:40am and I'M exausted,,going to bed, til tomorrow. thanks
 
Go ahead and post it here. Maybe others will join in and correct us - never hurts to have someone else joining in.

Right, the countershaft would be the 'drive' shaft. Sorry for the confusion on names. It's easier for me to use drive and driven as they are self explanatory.

If the dogs are just rounded a bit, you may be ok on them, since it wasn't slipping out of gear.

The gears are expensive when bought individually through Suzuki or BikeBandit - I looked at them when I had my cases apart. I had a bit of rounding on the dogs also. Decided the extra $$ for new gears wasn't worth it. You can also have the dogs undercut also.

I don't know what other GS transmissions will work on your bike, BUT, I would seriously consider getting a used one rather than rebuild the one you have.

I looked on ebay a few minutes ago and there is a tranny for a '79 750 starting at $0.99 with no reserve. Only 3 1/2 days left on the auction. Now I know it may not fit, but I'm just trying to give you an idea of what is out there and at what price. You may get lucky and find a nice one cheap. It's a crap shoot though and it may take a bit of looking.

As far as the pieces of metal. You need to thoroughly clean your cases - of course you knew that! I would also pull the oil pump and disassemble it and inspect all components. Why? The only thing between the pump and the little pieces of metal is that mesh screen on the oil pickup. The filter is further down the road.

I think the crank bearings will be ok, but inspect anyway. Inspect everything. This will be a complete rebuild by the time you are finished, believe me. Replace all the gaskets and seals. You will be glad you did when you are finished as you will have an oil tight engine.

You can probably get away without any head work, but it's up to you. Really depends on your budget. If you have $250 or so to spend -do it now.

It really isn't that complex of a job. Just keep organized and refer to the manual often.
 
grinding/meshing follow up

grinding/meshing follow up

on the countershaft, 3rd,4th & 5th gears have rounding of the dogs. pretty bad on some gears-about half of dog thickness gone. im missing 2 lockwashers from the shaft so far.i found most of those pieces yesterday. with the excellent condition of the bike and low miles(12k),i believe there was an assembly flaw with the lockwashers, or they were defective. i'm sure i caused a lot of the dog rounding by creating the grinding noise so techs could hear it. the bike isin't normally leaned to the right in neutral and rev'd. i havn't brought the shaft anywhere for disassemblt yet. local suzuki priced gears at $80/each. i need to consider other options first. also, should i be able to rotate the shift cam(drum) easily by hand, because i cant. as a sidenote: 3 exaust bolts snapped in the head during disassembly. 2 are flush with head, 1 exposed about 1/4". and my premuffler broke where it fits into header. can i bypass it? thanks
 
Did you remove the detent spring from the shift cam? It will be hard to rotate with this on. If you did, then it sould rotate pretty easy with the gears and shift forks removed. There are a couple of bearings - one on each side that it rotates on. They may be bad - or just have cr@p in them.

If the dogs are round to 1/2 their thickness - dam! That seems like a lot to me. I'm no expert though. I doubt that it was your fault. They don't round easily. I suspect the previous owner liked to power shift.

I don' tknow much about the premuffler - or what it even is! Can't help there.

There are some earlier posts on extracting the exhaust bolts. Good advice in them - do a search.
 
grinding/meshing 82gs850glz

grinding/meshing 82gs850glz

no i never removed the detent spring. i pretty much left the shift drum, shift forks, and gear shift mechanism alone. the bke always shifted great so i didn't get into that stuff. i put a post in the classified(wanted) section and a guy in maryland(about 7 hours away) has a parts bike for me with a good tranny for $50. i'm tempted. i did read the sections on bolt extraction the other day.you're right, good stuff there. i'm going to attempt to remove one of them now. the pre-muffler sits under the oil pan area and the center 2 pipes go directly into it while the outside pipes come into it from the rear. i'm going to do some reading on that later also. it's probably a restriction i don't need.
 
If you pull the detent spring and lever (has a little roller on it), the shift cam should move freely.

I would recommend that you take everything out of the cases since they are split now. After the cases are bare, clean them thoroughly. I used a combination of kerosense, a stiff brush, and elbow grease. This was followed by a trip to the local car was for the pressurized soapy water. Back at the shop I blew them out with pressurized air. I did this maybe 3 times as my cases were really filthy. There are other ways to clean the cases, just make sure you clean them very well.

A parts bike may not be a bad idea. You may run into more problems later and this could help. $50 isn't much at all.
 
grinding/meshing 82 gs850glz

grinding/meshing 82 gs850glz

todays project was to get the 3 broken exaust studs out of the head. i succeeded! what a load off my shoulders. i used 5 different drill bits from smaller to larger and drilled out the bolts. the bolt extractor didn't work. it was probably close to breaking. after drilling i tapped new 8mm threads. i screwed in a new bolt to test and seems tight. my crankcase is actually spotless. i kid you not. absolutely no sludge. 12k, easy miles and frequent oil changes. every nook and cranny has a film of clean,clear oil. all internal aluminum shines like its polished.being in this condition, do you still recommend what you mentioned. the crankshaft and top end are still assembled and i wasn't going to disassemble. do you think i need to take the shift drum, forks,stopper,out because i wasn't going to get into that either. the drum does rotate freely as i tested as you described. the shift drum has 2 stoppers and two related springs. should i change the springs anyway. one is easy to do, while the other requires removal of the bolt. i just dont want to loosen and re-torque bolts i dont have to (stripping,possibly loosening later,etc). besides the broken lockwashers i retrieved, i have pieces of a circular ring with a small collar on it. i have about half of it and it would be about half-dollar size in-tact.dosent look like a circlip. 1 piece was in the drain of the?secondary drive. the big spring of the countershaft rides in that same gearoil cavity i believe. i need to disassemble the countershaft to check under the input/output cam dogs that the big spring pushes on. i think after one lockwasher let loose that the play caused another and then that ring. i dont know what caused it all to begin with. i want to turn the motor right side up to allow the oil gathered under the rings to drain. will the crankshaft drop out? the camchain is still connected. piston vacume seems strong enough to keep the crank from dropping. sorry so many ???, but weekends coming and i believe this system goes down sunday/monday. thanks again, its great to have help.
 
Ok, so now I understand a bit more of how you disassembled this thing. You split the cases without removing the cylinders and crank. Hehe, yea - The crank is pretty heavy. I think if you let it hang thinking the pistons will keep it in place - it will drop out. That's my guess anyway. And if it get's displaced, then the five (I think) pins holding the bearings could fall out, and then you have a mess. You might find yourself taking it all apart after that.

The assembly procedure is to have the top cases on the bench and set the crank in first. Just he way you have it now, so you should be ok.

I went to BikeBandit and looked at a picture of your transmission because I was really lost trying to envision the parts you were describing. This tranny is a bit different than mine - 80 1100. I hope I can help you, but I don't have any experience with yours.

I suggest you compare your transmission - or whats left of it - to the schematic and determine what parts are missing. You can then tell what they were and where they go.

You might not have to wash everything like I did. Mine was completely apart so it was much easier to do. Just make sure you get all the broken parts out and clean the case surfaces so the sealant will stick good.
 
tranny rebuild update

tranny rebuild update

today i rode for about an hour. i had replaced my tranny with a used one(both drive & driven gearset), from an 82' gs850g model. $40 and i got it locally. 2nd & 5th gear have one additional tooth over mine(gl model). tranny worked great today. i had to tweak the factory pre-set carb screws though. possibly because i had to bypass the premuffler as it broke during disassembly(i used flex pipe). or because i cleaned the carbs completly and there is more flow now. i still need to get a vacume gauge & sync carbs. bike idles smooth and runs strong. p.s.:i retrieved 6 pieces of metal inside my engine which were 2 lockwashers and chips frome output cam on the countershaft.
 
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