No Spark either side till i release the starter button

[pdqford]

I just tried the shunt between Orange and Red at the key connector with that piece unplugged.
Kill switch ON
Crossed the Solenoid to crank the engine.

No spark / change.
.

This is interesting. When you jumper the Red and Orange wire to bypass the ignition switch contacts, AND let the ignitor turn the coils on and off while engine is being cranked by jumpering the starter solenoid NO Sparky at plugs.

But in a previous post where you supplied power AND ground to the coils and took the ignitor out of the equation, as you posted “they spark like mad”!

I suspect that the ignitor is not properly grounded and not properly supply a good grounds the coil circuit.

Gorminrider, Thank You for that nice color wiring diagram. It helps when we are all looking at the same diagram.

Now I see there are more posts that I missed, so let me go see them.
Maybe they negate what I just posted.

 

[Guest]

well they spark like mad when the ignition is OFF.
On they only lightly spark, but it's still a spark.

The ignitor when doing the test of the ignitor had an addition ground clip connected the body of the ignitor to the frame.
The last test (not the ignitor was just to connect all the starting circuits back and then additionally run a wire from the left screw mounting the ignitor direct to the battery and cranking the engine over with the starter.

Perplexing indeed though.

 

[Guest]

I further tested the ignitor again by repeating the Ignitor test.
This time with the ignitor grounded directly to the car battery.
Still no spark.
if this is a valid test.. I'm suspecting my ignitor is dead.

 

[Gorminrider]

I see you've disconnected the regulator. I was going to suggest that per a possible parasitic load

When kill OFF. I can see jgetting one last spark as the fields collapse but surely not more. If you can get a consistent spark when it's off that's a big clue- a bodged rewiring or the like offering a wrong path to the coils coils.

I can't see the Clymer test. This forum's picture mounting is tricky as there's a FULL SIZE option that is easy to miss. I see the size it'll be instantly in a draft post while writing it so watch for this.
I can see your wiring test but I'll have to have a rest before I can zoom in on what's what ...but basically, if I have it right (no guarantee on THAT!) just tapping a battery momentarily to emulate a signal generator's output should work ....?

Just don't give up. Have a rest come back to it. This has often worked for me. peruse the OLD archive posts here...this is such a busy and old forum that some recipe/solutions entirely disappear in the past.... Of course it could be a bad TCI but they are hard to find or trust as a second hand thing and alternates will be pricey and possibly difficult on your particular bike. . and even eventually you'll find a TCI to swap in.

 

[Gorminrider]

Just a thought- how about the spark plug caps? they generally test as 5k ohm through a ceramic resistor inside....if you are using RFI plugs too that's a sum of 10k. This (10k) works fine generally on my bikes if that's what I have handy but (without knowing) I'll guess yours, like mine, are not originally or ideally "Resistor" plugs in the manual....?

 

[Guest]

Originally the tested poorly, but I pulled and trimmed back the wire a few weeks ago and they test fine on the secondaries.
Something like 5.5 or 6ohms if I remember correctly after the cutting back of the old leads.

I'm still perplexed that no spark occurs with the Dyna S, which uses different coils, no Ignitor.
I'm going to give that another look even though it's not intended for my bike, or really not a "substitute" for those using mechanical timers.
The principle though of a generator / magnetic pulse would still suggest i'd get some spark.

The only other way I can see grounding my bike better is to drop it off the Empire State. .

 

[Gorminrider]

The only other way I can see grounding my bike better is to drop it off the Empire State. .

Originally the tested poorly, but I pulled and trimmed back the wire a few weeks ago and they test fine on the secondaries.
Something like 5.5 or 6ohms if I remember correctly after the cutting back of the old leads.

Well, I'm reduced to nit-picking but I expect you mean tested ok as 5 .5 or 6 k (kilo-ohms)...

I'm still perplexed that no spark occurs with the Dyna S, which uses different coils, no Ignitor.

I've no particular experience with aftermarket but Which kit is it? There must be something to interrupt the coil's power...even a CDI system has triggers

But given they should work it (still) points to power supply

 

[Guest]

Closing the loop on this

It was the Ignitor.
Swapped with a used one on Ebay and it sparks.
Now will need to start on the carb rebuild.

I will tear into my old ignitor sometime to see what's in them and if one can be remade DIY.

FYI there is this company out in CA offering a new unit should anyone want this info.
I've not tried or know anything about them, but if this old unit fails, I may try them next.

https://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/1983-1988-Suzuki-GN450-GS450-Ignition-Unit-CDI

 

[Gorminrider]

Thanks for reporting back. Hope it didn't cost much! $US329.00 from that site for a plugnplay "CDI" would make me query them pretty closely per what it really is, and their return policies...

 

[Guest]

Well, I got tired or working on it.
Took it to a bike guy who did all the same tests, Had the same results.
I could have just payed the 100 for the Ebay part. (a bit sorry I didn't) but a least it was 200 dollars to prove I'm not insane.
Total including the part was 333.00 USD.
I should replace the rectifier. If memory serves. I think a bad one will short out your Ignitor. Unless the previous owner just put + to - .

 

[Gorminrider]

Oh, you're not insane.... you were dealt a bad card. The symptom "No Spark either side till i release the starter button " = Bad Ignitor ... isn't in the shop manual.

and even though I have a spare working ignitor , I still wouldn't swap it in cavalierly until everything else in the path of "making spark" checked out. I would not want it togo pfffft! as happened to the original.