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oh no..what did I do

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That doesn't look so good. What do the head and caps look like now? I would thing that the soft aluminum would have some major damage if the steel looks like that.

I have never seen anything like it and agree that it looks like an oil feed or not enough assembly lube problem. What did Web say?
 
I plan on plastigaging with good stock cams to see the condition of the caps and head journals then with the Webbs. I can feel at least .002 or .003 of ridge on them. The caps do look good though. No discoloration or balling or grooving. The oil lines are just a safety though. The hi-flow gear and new pump should be feeding plenty of oil to the top end without the top end oiler. This motor has seen no heavy work just brake in and a few WOTS while sorting out the mains.
Usually you will get some discoloration in the caps if they have been over heated.

I will post the results when I am done.
 
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lecroy said:
That doesn't look so good. What do the head and caps look like now? I would thing that the soft aluminum would have some major damage if the steel looks like that.

I have never seen anything like it and agree that it looks like an oil feed or not enough assembly lube problem. What did Web say?
Click to expand...

Haven't talked to Webb yet. My engine builder was liberal with the molylube and first start up was 3k. He is very good and I trust him completely. Unlike most other shops. He builds and races his own bike, is a certified legens engine mechanic and works on 50,000.00 race ducati's.

I am going to try my hand at building my own engine this time. I think it is time to step out and go for it.

I have the following for cam journal clearances?

.0008-.0021 for a standard and .0059 for a max service limit.
 
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I know what your saying about the oil gears and such, but did you check it?

katman said:
I have the following for cam journal clearances?

.0008-.0021 for a standard and .0059 for a max service limit.
Click to expand...

What about the specs. for surface finish, roundness, etc.

You do your own thing, but if it were me and I pulled out a set of cams looking like this I would be shopping for a new head.

Like I said, I have never seen this but I have worked with aluminum and wonder why you think the caps would discolor if they were overheated?
 
katman said:
Haven't talked to Webb yet. My engine builder was liberal with the molylube and first start up was 3k. He is very good and I trust him completely. Unlike most other shops. He builds and races his own bike, is a certified legens engine mechanic and works on 50,000.00 race ducati's.

I am going to try my hand at building my own engine this time. I think it is time to step out and go for it.

I have the following for cam journal clearances?

.0008-.0021 for a standard and .0059 for a max service limit.
Click to expand...
I can't remember why my builder insisted that I stay away from the high volume pump, I'll ask him later today when he gets in. He said I absolutely must have a top end oiler but no to the pump.
 
What type of oil are you using?

Also are you using an oil cooler too?

Is the oil strainer clean, pickup tube housing bolted on tight?

I've also used my hand to hold the cam chain up nice and tight and hit the starter button with the cams removed watching the oil flow out of the journals. You got to be careful not to drop the chain or else.

I thinking there may have been air in the oil system, trapped air in the pump or the pump was not primed or lost it's prime during the first 60 seconds when the motor was started after it was put back together.

I'd check the oil pump with a pressure gage to see what you got.
 
Jake,

I am going to check everything thoroughly. I do have an oil cooler. Screen is clear and fine. don't think it was the first 60 sec due to all the assembly lube used but when I crashed she did rev on her side for some time as I recall.....while is was slidding down the road sparking and grinding.

I bet that has something to do with this.

pick up is correctly installed. Was using Castrol.

I have 1000.00 into this head Jake. throwing it out is going to hurt.....
 
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drhermanstein said:
I can't remember why my builder insisted that I stay away from the high volume pump, I'll ask him later today when he gets in. He said I absolutely must have a top end oiler but no to the pump.
Click to expand...


I would be interested as well. The thing to do in the day was to use 750 gears as they are flat bearings and use higher oil presure.
 
katman said:
I would be interested as well. The thing to do in the day was to use 750 gears as they are flat bearings and use higher oil presure.
Click to expand...
I asked why the high volume pump wasn't recommended this aft and the opinion I was given is that the Hi vol pump has to fight to keep working as the space to pump into hasn't increased (clearance and orifices).(This is hard on the pump and could cause a clip to fail as well). They said that something like a turbo install would require more volume but a stock set of clearances in a fresh motor would cause an increase in pressure and push the cams agains the caps. How's the wear on the caps versus the journals on the head?
 
katman said:
Jake,

when I crashed she did rev on her side for some time as I recall.....while is was slidding down the road sparking and grinding.

I bet that has something to do with this.
Click to expand...


That's it then, when the bike was on it's side the oil pickup tubes where sucking air.

Sounds like you could just replace the cams and be good to go. If the cam journals and cam caps look good on the head I'd wouldn't worry about it then..... your head a keeper.

You could take some emery cloth to those high sides on the cams
 
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If you look at my Katana head you'll see the cam journals. There's not much material at the botton, just a big oil hole, I guess the 1100 or 1150 cam journals are over kill.

Make's me think even with deep grooves on the cams and journals it wouldn't hurt a thing??

camchain2.jpg
 
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drhermanstein said:
I asked why the high volume pump wasn't recommended this aft and the opinion I was given is that the Hi vol pump has to fight to keep working as the space to pump into hasn't increased (clearance and orifices).(This is hard on the pump and could cause a clip to fail as well). They said that something like a turbo install would require more volume but a stock set of clearances in a fresh motor would cause an increase in pressure and push the cams agains the caps. How's the wear on the caps versus the journals on the head?
Click to expand...

Its not a hi flow pump. Its a hi flow gear.
 
Jake,

My initial plasti shows less then .002 and I checked top and bottom of a stock set of cams I had.
 
Okkkkkkkaaayyyyy,

The clearances for the 750 and the 1100 are the same except for the rollerbearings on the 1100 crank. The 750 need higher presure due to the flat bearings and forged rods. If I am not mistaken.
 
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If you got less than 2 thous and max is 5 thous I'd say your still good to go.

I'd just clean up those area's on the cams with some emery cloth or replace them if your still concerned about the grooves.
 
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