Regulator/Rectifier wiring questions

[Anonymous]

After a summer of smooth running and easy starting my GS850GT is having charging problems. My battery runs down every couple of days and I have got to trickle charge it every night to have enough power to start the next day. I replaced the stator this spring and since then haven't had a charging problem until last week. Today my turn signals quit working while I was on my afternoon ride and I headed straight home as this has been a sign that my battery was just about gone. So, tommorrow I am replacing my R/R with an Electrex R/R I purchased.
When wiring this R/R it seems I just connect the yellows to the yellows and the red to the battery positive,which seems cut and dried. However,I would like to run the black to the battery negative instead of to the ground on the R/R mounting bolt. Do I splice on a longer wire so the black will reach to the battery neg, or do I ground the R/R at the original location and then splice on another ground wire which goes to the battery neg? Should there be one ground wire to the battery neg or two different wires to the battery neg and frame ground ?
Any advise would be helpful! Terry

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

I would connect the reg ground wire to the reg and add an extra heaver wire from the reg to the - battery term, adding extra engine ground wouldn't hurt either.

 

[argonsagas]

Absolutely run the black direct to the battery, AND add the additional ground connections. At best, the Suzuki electrical ground system is poor,
so almost any addition you make will improve it. Running direct to the battery bypasses other connections that are likely to be problems on their own.

As to your battery running down...have you checked the fluid levels in the battery? If the fluid level is low, even in one cell, this will cause the symptoms described. Top up with water only, preferably distilled water, then trickle charge overnight.

 

[Anonymous]

Regulator wiring ???

Regulator wiring ???

When installing the Electrex R/R the wiring looks pretty simple. I have wired an extra ground wire from the R/R ground to the battery Neg. However, the red wire from the R/R connects to a red wire which goes through the fuse box before it goes to the battery positive. Do I need to run an extra wire directly to the battery + and go around the fuse box alltogether? Or, should I leave the red to red connections as is and run another separate wire directly to the battery + ?
Any help would be appreciated! Terry

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

I have mine fused just in case w/25A

 

[argonsagas]

The red wire can be connected directly to the battery, then you can run a heavier gauge red wire to the fuse box. This will avoid another connection, between the R/R and battery, (and every connection has a potential voltage loss,) while the heavier wire will allow a better feed to the fuse box. The stock wires are of barely minimum gauge. Heavier wires throughout every circuit would reduce voltage loss and many of the problems that plague our Suzis, but would require a much larger harness.

The red wire is live all the time. A fuse is not necessary, but not a bad idea. The main fuse should be 15 amps and everything else is 10.

Do NOT use higher-rated fuses.

The wiring is too thin to handle extra draw. If you should get a short while operating with a high-rate fuse, the additional amperage draw could overheat the wires and either melt them or start a fire before the fuse blows.

 

[Anonymous]

The stock wires are of barely minimum gauge. Heavier wires throughout every circuit would reduce voltage loss and many of the problems that plague our Suzis, but would require a much larger harness.

You don't need to use heavier gauge wires. Most modern cable has more strands and has a higher current rating whilst also being more flexible.

 

[Anonymous]

Absolutely run the black direct to the battery, AND add the additional ground connections. At best, the Suzuki electrical ground system is poor,
so almost any addition you make will improve it. Running direct to the battery bypasses other connections that are likely to be problems on their own.

Why not fix all the poor connections? The Suzuki ground system is no different to many others, but most 20 year old bikes wiring will be marginal now.
Just my opinion, but instead of bypassing the problem, I prefer to fix it.
I ended up making a new loom for my bike and have wired it to drawing. If all your connections are good and solid there will be negligible voltage drop across them.
If you don't trust your connections in the earthing circuit, what makes you think you can trust them in,say your ignition circuit?

 

[Anonymous]

I was just about to post almost this same question when I noticed this thread. I just recieved my new RR from Rick's. The wire colors are different from what is on my old RR. It has (1) RED, (3) YELLOW, (1) BLACK. The OLD RR has one each of a RED/WHITE, BLUE/WHITE, BLACK/WHITE, YELLOW, RED. Ok this is what I know, the RED goes to RED and Black Goes to GROUND. Does it matter how I plug-in the Yellows? Has anybody used RICK's products before, and how good are they? Oh, and this RR is somewhat bigger than my old one also, but the bolt holes line up.

THanks for anyhelp
Moonshine550t

'81 GS550T

 

[Anonymous]

No it doesn't matter how you plug in the yellows, they can go to any alternator phase.

 

[argonsagas]

The stock wires are of barely minimum gauge. Heavier wires throughout every circuit would reduce voltage loss and many of the problems that plague our Suzis, but would require a much larger harness.

You don't need to use heavier gauge wires. Most modern cable has more strands and has a higher current rating whilst also being more flexible.

I am not recommending wire replacement. I am aware of the stranded wires used, but it remains true that while the wires used are adequate, in designing the system the engineers used only the minimum size and capacity for the intended job.

18AWG wire is used on the bikes at the fusebox, but note that inside the series of splices and connections within the harness, some of the thick (?) 18 AWG drops to 24 AWG and those are further spliced. As shown by the Volt-Ohmmeters I have used there IS a voltage drop, but while it is not significant if all connections are good, and ambient temperatures are high, there can be further changes with any degradation in connection quality.

The combination of these realities is the reason for my warning against using high-amperage fuses, as that is a virtual guarantee of trouble.

 

[Anonymous]

What I meant was that if you are thinking of putting in new wires you don't need to go to a heavier gauge to get an improvement in performance. You can use the same gauge wire and it will probably have a higher rating IF you buy good quality modern stuff.
The main point I'm trying to get across here is this: You don't need to redesign the elctrical system on a GS(with one noteable exception) to get a reliable bike. The design itself is OK, but the main reason problems occur is age and therefore degradation., as you rightly said.
If your conductor changes gauge inside your crimps then that implies some strands are missing. If you mean that the physical dimension has changed then that doesn't matter as this is taken into account in the design of the connector.
Therefore if you have an appreciable voltage drop across a connection then you should remake the connectors, which is as quick,easy and cheap as running in a whole extra conductor.
Remember when GS's were new they were not reknowned for blowing fuses and bursting into flames. The only flaw in the design is the charging circuit whereby only 1 or sometimes 2 phases were regulated and 1 phase was run up through the headlamp switch. This can be fixed when you fit a decent 3 phase rectifier/regulator.
I totally agree that fuse ratings should be kept as low as possible.
I run 2 GS's year round (in wet Britain) as my main transport. I do this because they are reliable. 1 has a completely new wiring loom, home made for less than USD50, as the original loom wires had degraded and the other has had 75% of its connectors remade. Both have electrex reg/recs fitted. Neither have any additional grounds or fuses fitted. The existing grounds are fine if they are in good enough condition.
Happy tinkering!

 

[Anonymous]

brit7.11 you said earlier that I could connect my yellow wires to any phase of the alternator. I noticed in your last post you said that with a decent three phase RR you can bypass the Headlight switch. I would have to connect one of the Yellows directly to the Green white instead of connecting one of them to the Red white going to the HL switch to do this. The RR that I have is "OEM style" I don't know if this is just that it has the same connectors as the OEM part or if it has the same internals. The way I figure it is that since it has the 3 yellows, and not the same(colors) as the OEM it is a three phase and I should hook all of the yellows directly to the stator.
/\
I know the question above_| |_ is not very clear, but I would really like if somebody could explain to me wether or not my theory is correct.

A couple of other questions while I'm at it what is a good way to test the stator without the bike running?
As I explained in my other post the new RR is bigger than the stock one. It will not fit in the stock location, I have some Ideas on how to relocate it , but would like to here a few of yours.


Thanks for any Help
Moonshine550t

'81 GS550T

 

[Anonymous]

Yes you are right. You can connect the 3 yellows directly to the 3 stator wires because you have a 3 phase reg/rec.
Ignore the red/white and green/white wires. They would have taken a phase from the stator up through the headlamp switch so that that phase was only regulated when the lights were on, thus reducing the load on the regulator. This is a now not needed.
The only way I know to test a stator with the bike not running is to put an ohmmeter across the coils. A stator is just 3 tightly wound coils of wire, so should have a fairly low resistance phase to phase. Can't remember the value, can someone else help? Also check each phase to a ground.This should be open circuit, or Megohms at least.
The easiest place to mount the RR will be somewhere adjacent to where the old one went, like on the side or bottom of the battery box.
Hope this helps.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks brit7.11 that is exactly what I needed to know about the wires. I'll see what it will take to mount it to the bottom of the battery box. I have to build me some new side panels anyway, so I was thinking. I can make a bracket for the new RR that mounts in front of the battery, and stands off a bit. Then I can make a side panel to fit, and put some louvers in the cover for cooling. What do you think?




Thanks again
Moonshine550t

 

[Anonymous]

The louvres can't do any harm, and will probably do some good.

Have fun.

 

[Anonymous]

I've got an older R/R from Ricks. It says in the paperwork that the center Yellow stator wire is unregulated. So that wire should be connected to the headlight switch stator cutout wire.

I also made a new mounting bracket to mount on the left side of the battery box. I'm giving serious thought to using a relay to turn that third stator phase on/off, as suggested in a thres way back.

 

[Anonymous]

Nashville Bill thanks for the info. The RR I got didn't come with any paper work. What is the part # on that RR of yours? Mine is 10-202.

Thanks

Moonshine550t