"Signal" fuse blowing - 82gs1100gl

[eddiev]

Hi,
Thought I caused a short while getting the carbs back on but can not find anything. I had the headlight bucket off to just check and have spent hours troubleshooting the wiring and I'm lost. I disconnected the battery and basically looking for a ground short. I see about 1 ohm to ground on either side of the open fuse but it seems to be the headlight resistance. Either way I went through 4 fuses and am on my way out to buy a bunch more.
Anyone have an idea to help.
Thanks.
Eddie V

 

[Wallowgreen]

Hey Eddie,

Can you give us a bit more info like does the fuse blow the instant you switch the ignition on or when you activate a signal. Let us have the details it'll be easier to help.

Just been through a similar deal when I fitted new aftermarket signals on my 1100GL, one of those had an internal short straight out the packet and would blow the fuse when switched on.

 

[eddiev]

Thanks a bunch.
It blows as soon as I turn the ignition to "ON". I can watch it open as I turn the key.
Thanks.
Eddie V

 

[Redman]

Eddy,

You have a schematic?
Would it help if you did?
I can scan a color schematic from an older Clymers manaul, and a black-n-white schematic from a newer Clymers manaul. PM me your email if you would like that. (will check back in an hour or so.)

Good that you have a meter.

Good observation that it blows as soon as turn on ignition sw (rather than when turn on a t/signal).

When you say reads 1 ohm on "both sides of open fuse", keep in mind that the "hot" side of the signal fuse would be the same hot side of the headlight fuse and the ignition fuse. You could pull those two other fuses to isolate those circuits from your testing, but yet, its the load side of the signal fuse that is your concern since it is the signal fuse that is blowing.

Lets see,
Lets look at the schematic,
82 1100GL,
First fuse is headlight fuse,
2nd fuse is "signal" fuse, and schematic shows orange/green wire,
if you follow the orange/green wire on the schematcc..
... we will see that are other thinggs on the signal fuse:
- t/signal control unit.
- rear brake switch (hum that is kinda close to carbs)
- front brake light switch
- horn (directly to horn, the horn button completes the ground)
- On same connector as what goes to horn is also a jumper over to a yellow wire that goes over to headlight dimmer switch, that I dont understand what that is all about....
- netural indicator (directly to bulb....)
- Oil pressure indicator (directly to bulb....)
- fuel gauge (directly to gauge.....)
- and maybe the gear position idicators lights (not certain how to interpert this scheamic, but on schyemaitc for other models it is more clear that the power from the signal fuse goes directly to gear indicator bulbs....)

So, can try takeing apart all the connectors that go to all these devices.
And then try again,
- if still blows fuse then you know its not any of these these devices that are shorted to ground, but must be something in the wiring harness before get to these devices.
- if it doesnt blow fuse, then plug these back in one at a time, .......

Just for fun I am going to make a quick quess that your problem is the front brake swtich, I know those can come apart such that a spring or a contact shorts out to ground. But dont let that throw you off you. Lets take apart all the connectors that go to all the devices listed above. You already have head light out of the shell and side covers off. If you are not sure of what device is where, or what device is what, just look to see if the connector has a orange/green wire. Take apart every connector that has an organge/green wire even if you dont know what it goes to.



.

 

[Redman]

The circuit for the oil pressure indicator also involves the kick stand switch and a diode, but lets not get into that just yet.

 

[Wallowgreen]

Exactly like Redman said.

If you wish, you can download a wiring diagram from our friend BassCliff's excellent fountain of knowledge website:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

Look at the top for the wiring diagrams list, there's one listed for GS1100 but I downloaded the owners manual for the GS1100GL and I think the wiring diagram in the back of that is different so be careful with that. I went with the one in the owners manual and printed it out as large as I could.

I have an original workshop manual for the GS1100G/GL on the way from the UK. My wife is over there visiting family right now and one came up in good condition on the English ebay site so I bought it and it's in her case ready to carry back. I'm hoping to make a pdf from it and get that onto BassCliff's site when I get my hands on it so we can all have the use of it (he doesn't know yet by the way).

 

[nert]

ed
I'm looking at a wiring drawing.
Top fuse in your stack?
Telling which one cuts the troubleshooting in half.
Could be a couple things.
Open up the head light again.
Disconnect the harness for the signal switch. Still blow?
Disconnect turn signal control unit (6-7 wires). behind right side cover, i think. Still Blow?
Disconnect the harness for the dimmer switch. Still blow?
License plate bulb, tail light bulb?
OR
Second fuse in stack? makes a big difference?
Disconnect the turn signal relay (4 wires). behind right side cover, i think. Still Blow?
Disconnect turn signal control unit (6-7 wires). behind right side cover, i think. Still Blow?
Brake light switch.
Front brake switch
horn
fuel gauge

need more info.
Happy to help

 

[eddiev]

Hi guys,
Just came in and was going to fill you in. Yes I already have a schematic and I've already disconnected most anything I can see associated.
Here is where I am.
The orange/green wire from the fuse box connecter now seems to have a dead short to ground. I have the fuseblock off the headlight off, the turn signal relay and control unit off, battery out. I have separatly disconnected and reconnected the single wires going back toward the lights, the rear brake switch, the oil pressure switch etc. Short remained constant all the time.
I'm going back out to check the front brake switch like you said.
Thanks a bunch.
edit: also have both connectors under the tank disconnected.
Eddie V

 

[Redman]

Good, seems like you are approaching this with the proper understanding.

Disconnecting the wire to the oil pressure switch will not help. That wire gets connected to ground on purpose when oil pressure low, so that wire shorting to ground will not blow a fuse, it will just light the light. The oil pressure switch shorting to ground is how it operates. Power from the fuse goes to the light, and then the light goes to the oil pressure switch, the oil pressure switch being closed (low pressure) then connects to the ground. For your troubleshooting effort, you Need to disconnect the connector that takes the power to the oil pressure light in the instrument panel.
Same for the circuits for the gear indicator and netural light. And the circuit for the horn.

So, ... also look for the other connectors for the other things like the horn, and the various instruments. .... any connector that has an orange/green wire.

(will check back in a couple hours. Time to fire up the grill. First t-shirt day. Went for ride already)

Oh, not directly part of troubleshooting to find this short to grounnd...... dont let this distract you from finding all the orange/green wrires.
But if you do conclude that wires are shorted to ground inside the wiring harness, then look at the ground wire that comes out of the wiring harness and is grounded to the frame under the seat, just behind tool tray - battery area, is most noticable from the top looking down (if like mine). That ground wire look burnt/overheated? It did that to me on my 82 1100GK when the r/r failed and apparently dumped a lot of amps down that ground wire and turned it into a toaster element. It also melted into some adjacent wires in the wiring harness and was pretty close to shorting the ground wire to a couple other wires in the harness (I had to peel back the harness and repair a few wires that had insluation melted toghether). I could tell you more about why that happens, but that is another disscussion.

.

 

[eddiev]

I can't thank you enough. I think I may have found it. After disconnecting about everything I last disonnected the horn and low and behold. I thought the connectors under the tank would have disconnected that circuit. Anyway, my horn has 2 black wires going to it. Removeing one did nothing and the other opened the short.
Does that make sense? Is the horn shorted to ground internally or is disconnecting the wire masking something else.
Either way, I'm going out to button it all up and see where I am.

As an aside, my starter button breaks. Suddenly the plastic button pops off. I took it apart and am going to try and glue it. The plastic just broke. What's next.

This is all after I changed the clutch, petcock and rebuilt the carbs and am too excited to get riding.

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.
Eddie V

 

[Redman]

Congratulation. You have isolated the problem so that it doesnt blow the fuse. Next step, if you want to fix it so horn works again, would be to further isloate the problem.

You say horn has two black wires.
Hum, that doesnt match the schematic, so I suspect is not stock arragment. Maybe someone has replaced the horn with a bigger/louder one and then needed to add a relay some where to operate it, hense the need for additional wiring.

.

 

[Wallowgreen]

I've just been out to look at the connections on my machine, they look like black wires also but the doesn't agree with the diagram. If you have one you'll see 12v goes to the horn direct via the Orange/Green wire (which must connect to one of the black wires). The other black wire at the horn connects to the Green wire somewhere. That then goes to the horn switch at the handlebar which makes the circuit to ground when pressed.

From what you say, seems like the horn itself has developed a short, if something downstream had shorted to ground the horn would be sounding all the time. Keep us posted.

 

[eddiev]

Yeah, it looks like the horn ws shorting out to ground. I buttoned everything back up (horn disconnected of course) and the fuse hung on.
I had replaced that horn a couple years back. I know the replacement was not original suzuki and actually sounded lower than the original horn. I'll start looking for an original.

What's strange is remember my first post I saw 1 ohm on that line. The one ohm came back after it was all wired up again. Luckily it went to a dead short so I could troubleshoot it. I think the horn was shorting only with full voltage first and then after blowing about 6 fuses it dead shorted. The one ohm is from something else.

I couldn't start it because the starter button broke on me. The plastic just cracked and the button feel out. I took it apart and will try gluing it for now.

I guess it's not meant to be to ride yet.

Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it.

Eddie V

 

[makr]

Sorry to bump this, but I have been fighting the same thing. Kept thinking it was something else because the horn was new. Had most of the wiring loom disconnected. Read this thread. Disconnected the horn, and low and behold that solved it.

YES!!!!! Now if it would get above freezing.

 

[Guest]

WTF? Some kind of weird gay porn?

 

[makr]

WTF? Some kind of weird gay porn?

I was chastised by a member here for not having a signature. So I got one.

 

[posplayr]

Sorry to bump this, but I have been fighting the same thing. Kept thinking it was something else because the horn was new. Had most of the wiring loom disconnected. Read this thread. Disconnected the horn, and low and behold that solved it.

YES!!!!! Now if it would get above freezing.

congrats on finding the old link (I assume using search) and fixing the problem.

 

[Redman]

Sorry to bump this, but I have been fighting the same thing. Kept thinking it was something else because the horn was new. Had most of the wiring loom disconnected. Read this thread. Disconnected the horn, and low and behold that solved it.




YES!!!!! Now if it would get above freezing.

Also, congrats on using the search feature, and congrates for solving this.

This is often a difficult one to troubleshoot, becuase someone might say "it blows fuse as soon as turn on the ignition switch not when I push the horn button, so it cant be the horn that is blowing the fuse."

Well, yes it can (in stock configuration), because the power from the fuse goes to the horn, thru the horn and to the horn button (as I described in my posting above back in April) . . . . .
So if the horn has a problem such that the horn shorts to ground . . . . .

.

 

[makr]

Also, congrats on using the search feature, and congrates for solving this.

This is often a difficult one to troubleshoot, becuase someone might say "it blows fuse as soon as turn on the ignition switch not when I push the horn button, so it cant be the horn that is blowing the fuse."

Well, yes it can (in stock configuration), because the power from the fuse goes to the horn, thru the horn and to the horn button (as I described in my posting above back in April) . . . . .
So if the horn has a problem such that the horn shorts to ground . . . . .

.

Yeah, I am pretty sure EVERYTHING has been covered here at some point. Just goes to show there is never a dumb question...it just may benefit someone much later (not that this was a dumb question).

I kept glossing over the horn because the problem progressively got worse, so my thoughts kept going back to chaffed wires, or something of that sort. I even ordered a new RR, thinking that could be it, from reading lots of other old threads.

I hate wiring issues the most. I love the rest. So happy it is sorted.