Camshaft Top End Rattle

[Suzuki_Don]

My 1981 has tube tires and I'm running Dunlops on it. I can look around for the model number if you want.

Can you possibly tell me what type of dunlops you are using and the sizes please.

[Suzuki_Don]

Don, for some time after first introduced after the spoke wheels, the front alu wheels also needed a tube and modern tires are available for that setup. Not sure about the rear tires, though.
My 1980 is a tube type front wheel and Bridgestone, Michelin, Metzeler, etc. make a tyre for it.

OK thanks for that. What type of tyres are you using and sizes too please.

[waterman]

There are no radials narrow enough, but those Avon Road Riders are great, using new rubber technology, a modern tread design, the result is a huge improvement over anything that was available just a few years ago. I am no tire engineer, don't really know how it works, but I ride hard in all kinds of conditions, the tires transform these old skinny wheeled bikes. The confidence in knowing the tires will stick is worth the money.

Try a pair.

I have to agree with Tom, the road riders are excellent. I like them since they come in correct sizes for our skinny rims. I am running a 3.25 x 19 Front and had ran a 120/90 x 17 rear until it developed cracks (x2). Really liked the way bike felt, solid in corners, decent wear. I ended up replacing the defective rear with Shinko 230, it has been fine.

I did a little checking, stock 77 550 rims had a 3.25 x 19 F and a 3.75 x 18 R. Avon shows that it makes a 3.25 and a 4.00 for R which should be about perfect. You could probably move up to a 90/90 x19 and maybe a 120/90 x 18 for rear without too much difficulty. I think the narrower tires actually turn in a little quicker and feel more neutral IMHO. Currently with the 130 shinko, it seems like my 650 takes a little more effort to get into and out of corners than with the 120 Roadrider in place.

I have to recommend the newer tires styles, the new rubber technology has made them much better in quality than the older designs hands down.

[Suzuki_Don]

I have to agree with Tom, the road riders are excellent. I like them since they come in correct sizes for our skinny rims. I am running a 3.25 x 19 Front and had ran a 120/90 x 17 rear until it developed cracks (x2). Really liked the way bike felt, solid in corners, decent wear. I ended up replacing the defective rear with Shinko 230, it has been fine.

I did a little checking, stock 77 550 rims had a 3.25 x 19 F and a 3.75 x 18 R. Avon shows that it makes a 3.25 and a 4.00 for R which should be about perfect. You could probably move up to a 90/90 x19 and maybe a 120/90 x 18 for rear without too much difficulty. I think the narrower tires actually turn in a little quicker and feel more neutral IMHO. Currently with the 130 shinko, it seems like my 650 takes a little more effort to get into and out of corners than with the 120 Roadrider in place.

I have to recommend the newer tires styles, the new rubber technology has made them much better in quality than the older designs hands down.

Thanks Ed. How long did you have the Roadrider on the rear before it developed cracks.

At present I have a 90/90x19 Metzler on the front and a 120/90x18 Avon Roadrunner on the rear. Although seeing as the original rear was 3.75 that would equate to about 100mm if you do a straight conversion. But the metric tires seem to go a bit larger than the equivalent imperial measurement it would seem.

I think I will go for a 120/90x18 on the rear, although a 110/90x18 would work OK as well. The tires that are on the bike now give excellent handling, so I guess there is really no need to change from the sizes I currently have. And I like the fact that the bike drops into corners nicely at the present time and would not want the effect you spoke of, needing to use more effort to get the bike through corners. I think I would struggle to find a 3.75x18 tire for the rear. Seems really narrow for the rear.

I also noted that you have a 2.50 rim on the rear and mine is only 2.15 so if a 120/90 is ideal for your bike then a 110/90 is probably the best for my 550, what do you think.

[waterman]

Thanks Ed. How long did you have the Roadrider on the rear before it developed cracks.

At present I have a 90/90x19 Metzler on the front and a 120/90x18 Avon Roadrunner on the rear. Although seeing as the original rear was 3.75 that would equate to about 100mm if you do a straight conversion. But the metric tires seem to go a bit larger than the equivalent imperial measurement it would seem.

I think I will go for a 120/90x18 on the rear, although a 110/90x18 would work OK as well. The tires that are on the bike now give excellent handling, so I guess there is really no need to change from the sizes I currently have. And I like the fact that the bike drops into corners nicely at the present time and would not want the effect you spoke of, needing to use more effort to get the bike through corners. I think I would struggle to find a 3.75x18 tire for the rear. Seems really narrow for the rear.

I also noted that you have a 2.50 rim on the rear and mine is only 2.15 so if a 120/90 is ideal for your bike then a 110/90 is probably the best for my 550, what do you think.

I had maybe put a 1000 commuting miles on the first rear and less than 150 on second rear before it started cracking. Strange thing about the cracking is that it never got any worse. Of course, on second tire, I had picked up a wood screw near dead center of tread before I decided to return it. I ran it maybe 2500 miles like that before replacing with Shinko. It just got to a point where I was filling with air on a weekly basis. I still have it mounted, sitting on rear of semi parts bike. I have thought about throwing a tube in it and running it if I get desire to fix semi parts bike.

Post on Avon cracking

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=140853

I would think you could put a 120 on the rear. Any smaller and you run into trouble finding a tire that isn't 15 years old in design. People here stuff 100 onto 1.85 front rims, surely 120 onto a 2.15 isn't much worse. Just my thoughts.

[psyguy]

OK thanks for that. What type of tyres are you using and sizes too please.

I've tried Michelin, Bridgestone and Metzeler and I think they're all very good tires. 100/90 or 110/90 x19 front and 130/90 x17 rear.

I've found you can't do a straight conversion from imperial to metric measures. "4.00" tire is similar in profile height and width to 120/90 tire (approximately)

http://www.weeksmotorcycle.com/tire-size-conversion-chart.html

[Suzuki_Don]

I've tried Michelin, Bridgestone and Metzeler and I think they're all very good tires. 100/90 or 110/90 x19 front and 130/90 x17 rear.

I've found you can't do a straight conversion from imperial to metric measures. "4.00" tire is similar in profile height and width to 120/90 tire (approximately)

http://www.weeksmotorcycle.com/tire-...ion-chart.html

Yes that's what I am finding, it's not just a matter of multiplying by 25.4, when you do that you end up with really skinny tires. Thanks for the reply, that confirms what I had been working out in my head. Thanks again.

[Suzuki_Don]

While in the process of writing up a journal on the 2nd engine rebuild I remembered that when I went to pull the crankcase halves apart that a number of the bolts holding the halves together were only finger tight. I had not thought to check them after the first 100 miles for loosening. I know that the head nuts need to be retorqued, but hadn't given any thought to the crankcase bolts.

So just a reminder to anyone who has done this or is going to in the future, DON'T FORGET TO CHECK THE BOLTS HOLDING THE CRANKCASE HALVES TOGETHER.

[Suzuki_Don]

I put 120 miles on the bike today and hooked up with the Norton boys at Windsor/Richmond for coffee.

I've got 800 miles on this motor now, reckon I need to do some checks on it soon, You know; torque on head nuts, valve clearances, replace the clutch basket with new one from the States, etc.

My next twilight run with the boys is in two weeks, so that should be enough time to do all that.

Then I need to drop the clutch basket I've pulled out of the motor over to my machinist to have it welded up after he provides me with some hardened steel washers to compress the springs a bit.

I also need to check the metal tabs on the EBC fibre plates that I am running, I think they might be a bit tight in the basket slots and I may need to take a smiggin off them with a file for a looser fit to make gear changes a bit smoother.

I'm draggin the chain a bit as Ed (Nessism) told me to do the valve check and retorque the head nuts at around 200 miles. Been enjoying riding too much.

[pete]

Sounds definitely time to check Don!

My limited knowledge is that things should be checked after 1000 km's, which is about 620 miles, which is more than Ed suggested but definitely less than 800 miles.

Hope it all looks good when you pop the valve cover off

[Suzuki_Don]

Head Tightened, Valves Clearances Checked

I retighten the head nuts on my 550 last night. I could not get any movement on the nuts before the tension wrench released. So I loosened the nuts in turn by a slight amount and then was able to get a further 1/4 of a turn on each nut, some a little more. But there was no way they had loosened off as others had reported. I had used a composite Suzuki factory head gasket and my own home made base gasket. No leaks to this point and the base gasket is holding OK.

I then checked the valve clearances and they were as follows:

EXHAUST:

Cyl #1 -- .04mm previously clearance was .08mm
Cyl #2 -- .07mm previously clearance was .07mm
Cyl #3 -- .08mm previously clearance was .08mm
Cyl #4 -- .06mm previously clearance was .07mm

INTAKE:

Cyl #1 -- .06mm previously clearance was .10mm
Cyl #2 -- .08mm previously clearance was .06mm
Cyl #3 -- .06mm previously clearance was .06mm
Cyl #4 -- .05mm previously clearance was .07mm

As can be seen a few of the clearances closed up a bit, some stayed the same and one clearance (#2 cyl Intake) actually increased the clearance. Don't know how that happened. So in this area things are pretty much how I expected them to be after the rebuild. I'll change the #1 Exhaust shim for one size smaller and will be happy with that.

[49er]

I retighten the head nuts on my 550 last night. I could not get any movement on the nuts before the tension wrench released. So I loosened the nuts in turn by a slight amount and then was able to get a further 1/4 of a turn on each nut, some a little more. But there was no way they had loosened off as others had reported. I had used a composite Suzuki factory head gasket and my own home made base gasket. No leaks to this point and the base gasket is holding OK.

I then checked the valve clearances and they were as follows:

EXHAUST:

Cyl #1 -- .04mm previously clearance was .08mm
Cyl #2 -- .07mm previously clearance was .07mm
Cyl #3 -- .08mm previously clearance was .08mm
Cyl #4 -- .06mm previously clearance was .07mm

INTAKE:

Cyl #1 -- .06mm previously clearance was .10mm
Cyl #2 -- .08mm previously clearance was .06mm
Cyl #3 -- .06mm previously clearance was .06mm
Cyl #4 -- .05mm previously clearance was .07mm

As can be seen a few of the clearances closed up a bit, some stayed the same and one clearance (#2 cyl Intake) actually increased the clearance. Don't know how that happened. So in this area things are pretty much how I expected them to be after the rebuild. I'll change the #1 Exhaust shim for one size smaller and will be happy with that.

Hey Don, that's a good result. It's easy to end up with some minor variations of valve clearance readings. Yours are minor.

Haven't followed recent progress on your engine noise, what did you decide was the cause of it?

[pete]

I'd say that's success Don! Good stuff

[Suzuki_Don]

Hey Don, that's a good result. It's easy to end up with some minor variations of valve clearance readings. Yours are minor.

Haven't followed recent progress on your engine noise, what did you decide was the cause of it?

Hi Ian, I put it down to the clutch rattle seeing that the noise was only at idle and I had loose springs in the basket. I also adjusted the vacuum on the carbs at the same time so that could have helped as well.

Thanks for all your help and advice Ian. It was much appreciated.

I still haven't gotten around to doing the highest idle speed adjustment via the mixture screws yet, but have done 800 odd miles with no problems. It idles really well and with the shimmed needles thanks to NESS's advice it has power everywhere with not an ounce of hesitation anywhere. The mains are one size up from standard to guard against a lean top end. I couldn't be happier with the performance.

[Suzuki_Don]

Broken Clutch Drum

This will probably explain my clutch and gear changing problems the other day.

I took the clutch apart, when the pressure plate came off these parts fell into my hands.

You can see where one of the clutch spigots broke away from the clutch hub. When I inspected the part I could see half of the broken surface was old (previous break) and the other portion was new. There was a definite demarcation between earlier fracture and the later one.









I am now waiting on a used part to arrive from the USA before I can reassemble the clutch, but have plenty of other stuff to go on with, changing a few shims, dressing the clutch plate tabs, etc.