Head Nut / Bolt O ring question Leaking oil from head gasket area '82 850

[esj001]

hey guys haven't been on in a while but I have a few questions about an oil leak on my 82 850.

I have a very large oil leak coming from the front of the engine below # 3 exhaust pipe right about where the head gasket sits.

I did some searching on this wonderful forum and found this thread----

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?175380-Head-bolt-orings

there is a great picture of the head nuts in question that have the o rings on them

My questions are this:

1. why does the 82 850 parts fiche not show these O-rings???-----in the above thread there is a link to a 750 fiche that has them---are they not on every motor???

2. if these o rings are bad----will it leak from the area that my leak is coming from???

3. How do these nuts work----I assume they are threaded onto studs --- how do you loosen the nuts without un-screwing the whole stud----or am I way off in my thinking

thanks in advance for any help in this area----just hoping I don't have to remove the head

[GSX1000E]

On YOUR engine, the most likely cause for that leak is number 21 and 22 here: http://www.partsoutlaw.com/oemparts/.../cylinder-head
It is quite common for them to leak, after many years, there and drip down appearing to be coming out of the head gasket. Start by replacing those two inexpensive parts.

[bonanzadave]

1. why does the 82 850 parts fiche not show these O-rings???

I dont think your bike has them. Are you sure its not just a leaky valve cover gasket.

[bwringer]

Yep, the 850 doesn't have much of anything in common with the 1100E, let alone the head bolt o-rings. The only oil passages in the head gasket are at the corners and the tunnel in the center where oil falls back to the sump.

Anyhoo, yeah, it's most likely either a valve cover gasket leak or just the tach cable fitting dripping.

The valve cover gasket can easily slip out of place and drip back around the spark plugs and then the oil runs forward. The sealing surfaces are pretty narrow. If you need a new valve cover gasket, I'd go with OEM.

Here are instructions that should help you fix up the tach cable thing cheep if you haven't already:

http://bwringer.com/gs/tachcableseals.html

[esj001]

thanks for the replies

I guess i should have explained that i have been working on the bike for a little while now and when it started everything was so oily i couldnt tell where it could be coming from---i thought valve cover gasket as well and have had the tach drive leak before so i knew of this possibility

i replaced the tach drive o-rings and the valve cover gasket with a very nice one from realgasket company

i totally washed off and cleaned the mess (several times until the entire front of the motor was bone dry and clean)

i then sprayed on a coat of that leak detection powder and started the engine (i had also just changed the oil and filter)

within a few seconds brand new oil began pouring (not dripping) right from the head gasket level fins under the #3 exhaust area (valve cover and tach drive are bone dry)

i guess since it does not have these head nuts with o rings that it is most likely the head gasket

when i first saw how much was leaking i was sure the head must be cracked all the way into an oil passage ----- imagine pouring a bottle of oil very slowly in a small constant stream onto the garage floor--its that bad

i was just hoping it had these head nut o rings and that would fix it

has anyone ever seen a head crack through to an oil passage or a head gasket leak as bad as i am describing????

sounds like ill be pulling the head

[GSX1000E]

Throw away that real gasket and install a nice new factory gasket. Grease (synthetic) it lightly on both sides and allow it to suck in over night to make it reusable before installation.

[esj001]

Throw away that real gasket and install a nice new factory gasket. Grease (synthetic) it lightly on both sides and allow it to suck in over night to make it reusable before installation.

thanks but i think i have bigger problems---not gonna throw away a 30 dollar gasket that isnt leaking yet----but if it does i will try as you say

[bwringer]

Any way you could post some good pictures?

Yes, I suppose a crack in the head is possible, but I haven't heard of it. You can accidentally drill into an oil passage when drilling out a snapped exhaust bolt or installing a thread insert; that's happened a few times. Switching to a stud and coating it in sealer before installation will take care of it.

The only oil passage through the head gasket near that area is the cam chain tunnel in the middle. I suppose the area around the cam chain tunnel could leak, but I don't know why it would suddenly fail.

There are a couple of horizontal passages in the head to drain oil back to the center -- you can see where these are by looking at the location of the blanking plugs on the side. There's no oil pressure to speak of in this area; they're just gravity drains.

[esj001]

Any way you could post some good pictures?

Yes, I suppose a crack in the head is possible, but I haven't heard of it. You can accidentally drill into an oil passage when drilling out a snapped exhaust bolt or installing a thread insert; that's happened a few times. Switching to a stud and coating it in sealer before installation will take care of it.

The only oil passage through the head gasket near that area is the cam chain tunnel in the middle. I suppose the area around the cam chain tunnel could leak, but I don't know why it would suddenly fail.

There are a couple of horizontal passages in the head to drain oil back to the center -- you can see where these are by looking at the location of the blanking plugs on the side. There's no oil pressure to speak of in this area; they're just gravity drains.

i will attempt to post some good pictures---no smart phone, windows xp on a 12 year old computer makes it a little slower for me but i can and will

i wouldn't say that it all of a sudden sprung this leak----i gave the bike to my little brother last year and he is kind of hard on stuff----it did have a small valve cover leak when i gave it to him---that made enough of a mess that i suspect it hid this other leak until it just got to be too much---he is the type that would stop every 50 miles and pour a quart in rather than fix it----when i saw how bad it was i took it back and started working on it.

i do now think it must be the gasket at the corner of the cam chain tunnel as you say-----but i will post pics ASAP before i tear into it

thanks again----good to be back on the forum, you have helped me before bwringer ---but i lost my account and had to be a newb again

[esj001]

ok finally got a few pics of my leak and some more info to chew on-----this photo shows the area below #2 exhaust where the lesk is coming from
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/esj001/19660dec-f802-4b94-9ada-cbbdcb41776c.jpg

this photo is a closer up showing the areas the leak runs out of right below #2 right out of the thru passage between the cylinders (the upper red line is the head gasket level)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z354/esj001/f1a095ff-398f-4ffb-9aa1-c2793249b51d.jpg

while getting these photos i had my brother start the bike up while i looked for leaks-----

...first funny thing that happend is that a puff of the leak powder i was using puffed out in the area of the leak----(im thinking compression coming out the head gasket)

...then we noticed that the leak is mostly gasoline with kind of an oily mix---smelled like gas mostly

....we looked at the carbs very close and could see no fuel coming from the other side of the engine and running through the passage between #1 and #2 cylinder

Question is-----can a head gasket leak cause fuel/oil mixture to pour out of the area that mine is leaking???,,,, or is it more likely a carb leak running through to the front of the motor and not leaking gas anywhere else???---i sure cant see any evidence of gasoline anywhere but in the areas of the pictures.

Anyone had a head gasket pour oil and gas from this area before???

[bonanzadave]

Question is-----can a head gasket leak cause fuel/oil mixture to pour out of the area that mine is leaking???,,,, or is it more likely a carb leak running through to the front of the motor and not leaking gas anywhere else???---i sure cant see any evidence of gasoline anywhere but in the areas of the pictures.

Dont rule out your gas tank leaking somewhere and dripping down on the engine. petcock and fuel float gaskets all ok ?