Roughness Off Idle - Continued from Electrical Thread

[tkent02]

I have turned the screws out to 2 1/2 turns each and with the alteration in timing mentioned earlier it seems to be running a bit smoother.

You put them all to the worst setting, 2 1/2. Try setting them all at 2, the plugs looked the best there.

[pete]

I gotta say I love watching these threads with Ed, Don, and Tom... learn heaps this way! Thanks guys

[Suzuki_Don]

While I've reached the end of my usefulness on this one Don, I'm definitely keen to see how it ends up. I'm expecting some of this fun/pain with the K&N's plus the Tranzac 2 into 1 I got made, so definitely watching how you go...

Pete, I'm sure you will have fun when you get to that stage. JETTING IS FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Particularly when Mikuni have thousands of needles to pick from for one's very own applicatioon.

[Suzuki_Don]

Hey Don,

One other thing you can try is advancing the timing a couple of degrees. Mark the current position, rotate CCW to advance, and then go for a good hard ride. As long as you don't get detonation, the more advance the better.

Ed, the engine was pinging slightly at small throttle openings out of corners when it was set at 17° initial timing with the points setup. Now I have the Dyna S installed and the timing is at about 14 to 15°. So maybe with the more complete combustion from the Dyna S I could go back to the 17° it was at before, although the manual does say 10° initial advance for the 650, which I have the head and combustion chamber shape for that motor. Having said that the motor does run better at the 14° than the 10° I had it set at initially when the Dyna S was first installed. I will advance it a few more degrees and see what difference that makes.

I currently have the spark plugs set at the midway point between .024" and .031" as dictated in the 550 manual. Can I go with a wider plug gap now I have electronic ignition?

Ed can you have a look at the pic on my first post in this thread and give your opinion on the Morgan Carbtune levels.Thanks.

[Suzuki_Don]

You put them all to the worst setting, 2 1/2. Try setting them all at 2, the plugs looked the best there.

TOM, I will reset them to two turns out at the first chance. Off with the tank again. Oh! for VM carbs where the mixture adjustment can be made without removing the tank.

[Nessism]

Ed can you have a look at the pic on my first post in this thread and give your opinion on the Morgan Carbtune levels.Thanks.

Don,

If that were my bike I'd have another go at getting the levels equal. I understand what you say about having the levels change when you cinch down the lock nuts, but all I can suggest is deal with it.
Motion Pro makes a really nifty tool to get down at those adjusters. Only costs $20 here in the states, but not sure about down your way.

Good luck and hope you figure it out.

[Suzuki_Don]

Don,

If that were my bike I'd have another go at getting the levels equal. I understand what you say about having the levels change when you cinch down the lock nuts, but all I can suggest is deal with it.
Motion Pro makes a really nifty tool to get down at those adjusters. Only costs $20 here in the states, but not sure about down your way.

Good luck and hope you figure it out.

Thanks Ed, I will pull the tank and adjust the mixture screws to 2 turns out and synch the carbs while the tank is off. I have a new jet needle on order from the UK, a 5C32, I already have three of them just need one more and they have the 5 clip grooves as well for more adjustments. So I can try them if these other things don't fix the problem.

[pete]

Pete, I'm sure you will have fun when you get to that stage. JETTING IS FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Particularly when Mikuni have thousands of needles to pick from for one's very own applicatioon.

I'm actually looking forward to it Don! The Tranzac guy gave me a hint at a base setting to start with, one notch down on the needle and two sizes up on the mains, and then the fun will start. Discovered my needles are adjustable thankfully, although as you say there is a seemingly endless choice of needles from Mikuni if it's out...

Anyway, back on track... let us know how you go with the balancing...

[Suzuki_Don]

You put them all to the worst setting, 2 1/2. Try setting them all at 2, the plugs looked the best there.

OK. UPDATE.

I have installed the DYNA S ignition.

I have set the spark plug gap to .030", is that too wide?

I have set the pilot mixture screws to 2 turns out.

And these are the plug readings after a short run, probably about 4 to 5 km. Motor was hot when I got back but it was probably not really warmed up enough.



Compare to these plugs before changes were made.



Comments please.

P.S. The motor idles more smoothly and at lower revs. Down to about 950 instead of the 1100 when I had points.

I still have a roughness just off idle though, with the throttle open just the smallest amount, but the color of the plugs at idle looks good????

.

[pete]

Nice one Don! I've joined the Dynatek club now too... hope to find out how good it is for myself on Thursday...

To my untrained eye, those plugs look heaps better, although 1 and 4 seem a little blacker than 2 or 3, but that could just be the pic...

Gotta be annoying that you haven't gotten that niggly little roughness sorted.

I wonder can you work out what throttle opening it is and hold it there long enough to get a plug chop done? I'm thinking a different taper needle might be needed or some of those fancy schmancy dual taper ones I've seen...

Of course as normal take my advice with a grain of salt because it's all just theory to me at the moment

[Suzuki_Don]

Nice one Don! I've joined the Dynatek club now too... hope to find out how good it is for myself on Thursday...

To my untrained eye, those plugs look heaps better, although 1 and 4 seem a little blacker than 2 or 3, but that could just be the pic...

Gotta be annoying that you haven't gotten that niggly little roughness sorted.

I wonder can you work out what throttle opening it is and hold it there long enough to get a plug chop done? I'm thinking a different taper needle might be needed or some of those fancy schmancy dual taper ones I've seen...

Of course as normal take my advice with a grain of salt because it's all just theory to me at the moment

Thanks for the BUMP Pete.

The roughness is just off idle and I think it is too lean. So as I mentioned earlier I have ordered another needle to complement the other three that I have. These needles are from a GSX750 and the parallel part of the needle at the top is .005" narrower than the ones I have now which should allow a bit more fuel between idle and 1/8th throttle. They also have the five grooves for easy adjustments.

I am getting the needle from a mob in Holland and they are absolutely useless. I ordered the needle three weeks ago and they haven't even dispatched it to me yet and they have said that when they do it could take up to four weeks to arrive.

If I knew somewhere else to get it I would but no luck so far finding another supplier.

[pete]

Thanks for the BUMP Pete.

The roughness is just off idle and I think it is too lean. So as I mentioned earlier I have ordered another needle to complement the other three that I have. These needles are from a GSX750 and the parallel part of the needle at the top is .005" narrower than the ones I have now which should allow a bit more fuel between idle and 1/8th throttle. They also have the five grooves for easy adjustments.

I am getting the needle from a mob in Holland and they are absolutely useless. I ordered the needle three weeks ago and they haven't even dispatched it to me yet and they have said that when they do it could take up to four weeks to arrive.

If I knew somewhere else to get it I would but no luck so far finding another supplier.

That's a bugger Don! Sounds like it could be worth a shot too which makes it all the more frustrating.

Is it a standard Mikuni type needle? I'm guessing you've probably tried http://www.mikunioz.com/ and Sudco in the US etc.? I realise I'm more than likely grasping at straws but would love to help you avoid another 4 week wait after they finally ship the damn things...

I find it painful enough having to wait a couple of weeks for my bits to arrive from Boulevard Suzuki, but almost 2 months? Man you're more patient than I! I think I would've got the sandpaper out on the other needles in desperation by now...

[Suzuki_Don]

Yes Pete I have looked through both those dealers and they don't have what I need. Hatrick does only carry a set array of jet needles, the ones he can move quickly and definitely not the ones that I need. Just have to wait. One consellation is this bike is not a daily rider and is just a fun bike, so i have time on my side. And it's not like it's not rideable, it's just a stumble off idle.

[pete]

Aaah I see! Bit of a bugger but I guess he's gotta make sure he can sell his stock...

Hopefully you'll get them before too much longer because even if it's not a daily rider it would sure be nice to get it purring along like you want it to

[Suzuki_Don]

Current update

UPDATE: As noted earlier in the thread I have fitted a Dyna S electronic ignition. Mixture screws are at 2 turns out as suggested by Tom (good suggestion).

I took the bike out the other day and felt there was still some stumbling just off idle, but the bike was not fully warmed up.

Yesterday I put 128 miles on the bike and I could not really feel a problem. It seemed to be pulling pretty well from throttle shutoff to the position where it had been stumbling before just off idle, on the cruise position. I still have to have a look at the plugs to check their general color, will do that tonight. Hopefully all the evidence of richness has been burnt away by now.

I have purchased a richer set of needles from Chef which are on their way to me and expected shortly as well as two sets of pilot jets from Z1 (one set leaner and one set richer than what I have now, #40 & #45). For future insurance.

There was very slight pinging under load as the motor got hotter which was not there when it was warming up. I could only just hear it with my full-face on, I could feel it as much as hear it. So I need to retard the base plate for the Dyna S a fraction. That should put both modules in the correct position without adjusting them individually.

Then the final test will be for a fast blat on the Wiseman's Ferry Road and follow the river to it's end to take advantage of those high speed corners where I first noticed this problem before.

A couple of extra things. When I had points in the motor it was extremely hard to kick start, now just a prod and half swing on the kick start and it bursts into life. It also idles more smoothly and at lower rpm than before. It also appears to have a few more hp when riding it on the open road, seat of the pants stuff, you know!!