GS450 headlight/electrical issue...

[posplayr]

Pete,
Your reply helped some, but my dilemma here, is to figure out what to do (or how to re-wire) the wiring I no longer have direct connections to. The new ElectroSport stator has 3 wires: blue/white, yellow, and green/white. I know these three will go directly to the new SH775 r/r. From there, the r/r has a 35A (not sure of this fuse size) inline fused positive (red) wire which will go directly to the (+) battery terminal, and of course the negative wire that will go directly to the (-) battery terminal.

So, I will have 3 wires left over. The white/green wire came out of the old stator, and connected directly to a white green, that runs to the 'Lighting Switch' (I verified in my manual's wiring diagram), and as you stated, comes back to the r/r on the white/red. What do you mean by the circuit is bypassed? What becomes of the white/green and white/red wires in the wiring harness?

These are now spare wires as you have isolated them.

The last is the red 12V output. The old r/r had a red wire that connected to the red wire in the harness, which had another red, fused wire pigtailed to it, that connected to a red lead from the (+) battery cable. That is the wire that the PO had spliced in a thinner gauge yellow wire with crappy inline fuse, in the picture I previously posted. My question here is, since I have a main fuse between the r/r and the battery, can I just connect the main red wire from the wiring harness directly to the red lead from the OEM (+) battery cable, removing the 'pigtailed' fused wire?

There has to be a fuse between anything connected to the Battery (+) so no you can not just connect that red directly to the battery you will have completely bypassed the fuse.

Or does the 12V output from the (+) battery terminal to the wiring harness need to also be fused?

Since you went direct to the battery you now just tape back the old Red wire from the harness.

Any further help Pete, or from anyone, is much appreciated!

responses in bold red quotes

BTW there is nothing wrong with what the PO did. The red wire is the main source of all power as it is connected to the junction of R/R(+) and fused Battery(+). If you need to run a small accessory , then putting in an inline fused wire with what ever size is required for the accessory is perfectly acceptable.

Personally I would connect the R/R(+) back to where it was and see how bad it is using the test procedure in Modified Phase A tests..

[schmitty78]

responses in bold red quotes

BTW there is nothing wrong with what the PO did. The red wire is the main source of all power as it is connected to the junction of R/R(+) and fused Battery(+). If you need to run a small accessory , then putting in an inline fused wire with what ever size is required for the accessory is perfectly acceptable.

Personally I would connect the R/R(+) back to where it was and see how bad it is using the test procedure in Modified Phase A tests..

Ok, the white/red and white/green wires are now spares. Forgive my lack of electrical experience/knowledge here, but your 2 other statements are slightly contradictory to me. I understand the need for any 12V supply coming off the battery to be fused, and that makes total sense to me. However, you also said I could tape up the red wire from the harness...so how then would the 12V get to the ignition switch? As I understand it, I would then have just the R/R (+) fused lead charging the battery, and no other 12V supply feeding the ignition switch.

From what I've gathered here now, I should now only have a red wire with inline fuse coming from the OEM (+) battery cable, connected to the red wire in the harness...but the 'pigtailed' wire can be removed. Would that be a correct statement?

My last question here would be fuse sizes. The Easternbeaver kit came with a 30A fuse for the inline fuse holder between the R/R and the battery (+) terminal. Is that the right size fuse to have? I read in one of your threads, that the main fuse should be 20 or 25A (I can't remember exactly). Secondly, if I was correct about having a fused red wire from the battery to the red wire in the harness, should that be the same value as the main fuse? The diagram in the manual doesn't state fuse size, and I can't tell on the fuse itself what size it is.

Thanks a lot!

[posplayr]

Ok, the white/red and white/green wires are now spares. Forgive my lack of electrical experience/knowledge here, but your 2 other statements are slightly contradictory to me.

Most of the issue is not having a marked up schematic to talk to; you seem to understand quite well.

I understand the need for any 12V supply coming off the battery to be fused, and that makes total sense to me. However, you also said I could tape up the red wire from the harness...so how then would the 12V get to the ignition switch? As I understand it, I would then have just the R/R (+) fused lead charging the battery, and no other 12V supply feeding the ignition switch.

Your bike came from the factory with a RED wire connection between the Battery and the fuse box (you have a fuse box?) That wire then goes through the main fuse (15A) and then on to where your R/R(+) red wire connects (also know as the "T").

So when you go direct to the battery you are still returning through the original; path back to the ignition switch. This is why I say you could have just as easily hooked the R/R(+) to the original place. The only reason not to is if you think your fuse box can not provide a sufficiently low impedance between the battery and the R/R.

From what I've gathered here now, I should now only have a red wire with inline fuse coming from the OEM (+) battery cable, connected to the red wire in the harness...but the 'pigtailed' wire can be removed. Would that be a correct statement?

Yes; See I though you understood pretty well.

My last question here would be fuse sizes. The Easternbeaver kit came with a 30A fuse for the inline fuse holder between the R/R and the battery (+) terminal. Is that the right size fuse to have? I read in one of your threads, that the main fuse should be 20 or 25A (I can't remember exactly). Secondly, if I was correct about having a fused red wire from the battery to the red wire in the harness, should that be the same value as the main fuse? The diagram in the manual doesn't state fuse size, and I can't tell on the fuse itself what size it is.

Thanks a lot!

If you had wired your R/R(+) into the red wire that is where your old R/R was wired then you would only need a 15A MAin fuse. Since you chose to wire the R/R(+) directly to the battery, experience has shown you will need at least a 20 amp fuse. This increasing fuse size is only partially why I don't like wiring the R/R(+) this way although most people do it that way.

[schmitty78]

No, I have no kind of fuse box whatsoever on this bike. Which has become a point of confusion, looking at others' tweaked wiring diagrams. The wiring diagram in my factory service manual doesn't show a fuse box either. And to point out, I haven't done any wiring yet, I have just bought the parts and am waiting on a gasket so I can begin the stator swap and move on to the wiring. Is there a particular downside to wiring the R/R (+) directly to the battery? I just went with that on the recommendation of the Easternbeaver website.

[posplayr]

No, I have no kind of fuse box whatsoever on this bike. Which has become a point of confusion, looking at others' tweaked wiring diagrams. The wiring diagram in my factory service manual doesn't show a fuse box either. And to point out, I haven't done any wiring yet, I have just bought the parts and am waiting on a gasket so I can begin the stator swap and move on to the wiring. Is there a particular downside to wiring the R/R (+) directly to the battery? I just went with that on the recommendation of the Easternbeaver website.

Here is the wiring diagram for your bike. It is not factory but it is in color. You could probably find the factory schematic there is you look.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=2370B62DDF9F0C6B&id=2370B62DDF9F0C6B%211031&sc=documents

It shows pretty clearly what we have been talking about; there is a fuse three somewhere from the factory.

A screen capture of the relevant part is attached. I did not even mark it up as it is sell explanatory.

I would ignore what the easterner says, unless you know the impact of teh changes to your schematic.


Quiet simply, you power the ignition switch with two wires tied together. A R/R(+) and a fused Battery(+). Tying these two wires together forms the "T"

[schmitty78]

Here is the wiring diagram for your bike. It is not factory but it is in color. You could probably find the factory schematic there is you look.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=2370B62DDF9F0C6B&id=2370B62DDF9F0C6B%211031&sc=documents

It shows pretty clearly what we have been talking about; there is a fuse three somewhere from the factory.

A screen capture of the relevant part is attached. I did not even mark it up as it is sell explanatory.

I would ignore what the easterner says, unless you know the impact of teh changes to your schematic.


Quiet simply, you power the ignition switch with two wires tied together. A R/R(+) and a fused Battery(+). Tying these two wires together forms the "T"

I didn't see that as a 'fuse box'. My manual shows a fuse, which I figured was the inline fuse between the battery and the red wire, part of the "T". It oddly didn't state that it is a 15A fuse, like the diagram you linked does.

[schmitty78]

I would ignore what the easterner says, unless you know the impact of teh changes to your schematic.

So just what is the impact of wiring the R/R (+) straight to the battery (+)?? I haven't read anything relating to this so far...

Not saying you're 'wrong', just wondering.

[posplayr]

So just what is the impact of wiring the R/R (+) straight to the battery (+)?? I haven't read anything relating to this so far...

Not saying you're 'wrong', just wondering.

In your case you still have to run through the same "T" connection inside of the harness regarless if you run both R/R and Battery through a fuse or not. The R/R doesnt need fusing as it can only produce 15 amps. The battery much more. By fusing the R/R (with the battery) you need a larger fuse (20+ amps v.s. stock 15 amps) which is less protection against a battery short.

[posplayr]

I didn't see that as a 'fuse box'. My manual shows a fuse, which I figured was the inline fuse between the battery and the red wire, part of the "T". It oddly didn't state that it is a 15A fuse, like the diagram you linked does.

Yours apparently has no fuse box just an in line 15A fuse(for the battery).

[pete]

Looks like Jim's got you pretty covered, he's pretty "switched on" on the electrics (pun fully intended!)

And yep, our little 450's just have an inline 15A main fuse, that's it, no fuse box as such.

From the factory, + from the battery goes direct to the starter solenoid. The 15A inline main fuse also goes from the + terminal to the R/R and ignition switch.

[schmitty78]

In your case you still have to run through the same "T" connection inside of the harness regarless if you run both R/R and Battery through a fuse or not. The R/R doesnt need fusing as it can only produce 15 amps. The battery much more. By fusing the R/R (with the battery) you need a larger fuse (20+ amps v.s. stock 15 amps) which is less protection against a battery short.

In the interest of doing things 'right', and having the most reliability out of my bike, I suppose I will just modify the wiring I have, install a new inline fuse back to the factory spot (with better connections & correct gauge wire), between the battery and the "T". Maybe I'll just see if I can get my money back on the wiring kit for the R/R (+) & (-). If not, would there be anything wrong with using the 14ga wire from Eastern's kit to go to the factory "T"? Other than that, my last 2 challenges are:

1) making a decent looking mounting plate, so I can re-locate the R/R underneath the right side cover, just above where the battery slides out...seems to be about the only spot it will fit on the 450's without other major modifications.

2) re-working the factory grounding.

Pos (Jim), I know you've received some grief over your ground loops/single point grounding strategy, but from what I've read, I see the theory behind it and agree with it. Do you still use the following strategy, from your thread from a few years back?

1.) Three wires tied together at a mounting bolt for the R/R at the side plate
a.) R/R (-) from the Honda regulator to ring lug on a mounting bolt
b.) Battery (-) to a ring lug on the same mounting bolt
c.) Frame ground strap from bolt to frame (not the rubber mounted side plate)

2.) R/R (+) goes to the fuse box as normal

3.) Only connection other than 1b above to battery (-) is the 8 guage wire ground strap to the engine.

[schmitty78]

Looks like Jim's got you pretty covered, he's pretty "switched on" on the electrics (pun fully intended!)

And yep, our little 450's just have an inline 15A main fuse, that's it, no fuse box as such.

From the factory, + from the battery goes direct to the starter solenoid. The 15A inline main fuse also goes from the + terminal to the R/R and ignition switch.

Pete,
On the 8 ga wire strap that goes from batt (-) to the engine, is yours just going to one of the bottom engine bolts, or is there actually a separate bolt on the engine just for grounding? Mine is going to a lower engine bolt, but it looked like there could've been a spot for just a grounding bolt, with no bolt. Was just curious...

Thanks!

[posplayr]

In the interest of doing things 'right', and having the most reliability out of my bike, I suppose I will just modify the wiring I have, install a new inline fuse back to the factory spot (with better connections & correct gauge wire), between the battery and the "T". Maybe I'll just see if I can get my money back on the wiring kit for the R/R (+) & (-). If not, would there be anything wrong with using the 14ga wire from Eastern's kit to go to the factory "T"? Other than that, my last 2 challenges are:

1) making a decent looking mounting plate, so I can re-locate the R/R underneath the right side cover, just above where the battery slides out...seems to be about the only spot it will fit on the 450's without other major modifications.

2) re-working the factory grounding.

Pos (Jim), I know you've received some grief over your ground loops/single point grounding strategy, but from what I've read, I see the theory behind it and agree with it. Do you still use the following strategy, from your thread from a few years back?

1.) Three wires tied together at a mounting bolt for the R/R at the side plate
a.) R/R (-) from the Honda regulator to ring lug on a mounting bolt
b.) Battery (-) to a ring lug on the same mounting bolt
c.) Frame ground strap from bolt to frame (not the rubber mounted side plate)

2.) R/R (+) goes to the fuse box as normal

3.) Only connection other than 1b above to battery (-) is the 8 guage wire ground strap to the engine.

Nothing has changed, lectrons still flowing the same way.

However, the only thing I have been considering changing is that three of those single point grounds wires could go into a single larger ring lug (say 12AWG) and crimp and solder the whole lot together and have just that many fewer surfaces to worry about corrosion.

I'm currently designing a Solid State Power Box and my plan has been to connect all those wires into one connector. Basically since the R/R and the SSPB will have the RED(+) soldered together there is no harm in also permanently connecting the ground side with the R/R(-) and the wires for the battery and the frame ground.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=210261&highlight=solid+state

You can still always unbolt the frame and battery grounds from those respective points. I probably would not include the harness B/W in the mix just so it can all be removed from the bike if necessary.

[schmitty78]

Nothing has changed, lectrons still flowing the same way.

However, the only thing I have been considering changing is that three of those single point grounds wires could go into a single larger ring lug (say 12AWG) and crimp and solder the whole lot together and have just that many fewer surfaces to worry about corrosion.

I'm currently designing a Solid State Power Box and my plan has been to connect all those wires into one connector. Basically since the R/R and the SSPB will have the RED(+) soldered together there is no harm in also permanently connecting the ground side with the R/R(-) and the wires for the battery and the frame ground.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=210261&highlight=solid+state

You can still always unbolt the frame and battery grounds from those respective points. I probably would not include the harness B/W in the mix just so it can all be removed from the bike if necessary.

Hmmm...I like the sounds of the SSPB! But due to limited space, probably wouldn't be too feasible on my 450...or too necessary. I would like to add a 12V power point one day though. So, would the 14awg wire be ok to use, to tie into the "T"? I have a Weather Pack connector kit and tools on the way, so I will be able to use whatever gauge neccessary, once it is here.

[schmitty78]

After reading through your whole introduction of the SSPB...it would be nice to have, if I could find a spot for it!