Battery Post Melting

[OldVet66]

Star Washers! You really trust manufacturers that gave us shunt R/R's and poorly designed ground systems?

[Scratcher09]

Today I Checked all my grounds and found that I did need to scrape some paint off some of the points where the grounds connected to the frame and engine (and threaded holes). Got them taken care of and checked volts at battery while at 2500 rpm and got 13 volts so R/R seems fine. I inspected battery cables and they are fine. I cleaned them with baking soda and water and they didn't even bubble and there are no bulging areas where corrosion would be. Im not quite understanding what Branden W said about it looking like a bad connection. Hope he or anyone else can elaborate on that.

[posplayr]

Today I Checked all my grounds and found that I did need to scrape some paint off some of the points where the grounds connected to the frame and engine (and threaded holes). Got them taken care of and checked volts at battery while at 2500 rpm and got 13 volts so R/R seems fine. I inspected battery cables and they are fine. I cleaned them with baking soda and water and they didn't even bubble and there are no bulging areas where corrosion would be. Im not quite understanding what Branden W said about it looking like a bad connection. Hope he or anyone else can elaborate on that.

R/R might be fine but who knows about the rest?

Look up the Quick Test (see my signature) and report the full 6 voltage results for a more quantitative approach.

[Brendan W]

Today I Checked all my grounds and found that I did need to scrape some paint off some of the points where the grounds connected to the frame and engine (and threaded holes). Got them taken care of and checked volts at battery while at 2500 rpm and got 13 volts so R/R seems fine. I inspected battery cables and they are fine. I cleaned them with baking soda and water and they didn't even bubble and there are no bulging areas where corrosion would be. Im not quite understanding what Branden W said about it looking like a bad connection. Hope he or anyone else can elaborate on that.

What I meant by bad connection was that either the terminal was too small, was not flat or was not tight. Any of these would result in too much current going through too small a cross section resulting in enough heat to melt the post.
Make sure the starter motor cover is not contacting the starter motor supply terminal. At some stage in the past my starter motor must have been installed with the terminal post at 12 o'clock as it burned a hole clean through the cover. The excess draw in this case would probably cause trouble for even the best made connections.
P.S. Same goes for the terminals on the relay posts. It's easy for the one on the left to drift into the battery box when tightening. Most manuals specify a minimum clearance angle.

[chuck hahn]

One way to get the deep down corrosion out of the cables is to soak the ends in vinegar over night. The acidity eats then scale way down deep. next blow them dry with an air hose and solder the hellll out of them. Draw the solder as deeply as you can. This ensures a deep cleaned and connected cable end.

[posplayr]

One way to get the deep down corrosion out of the cables is to soak the ends in vinegar over night. The acidity eats then scale way down deep. next blow them dry with an air hose and solder the hellll out of them. Draw the solder as deeply as you can. This ensures a deep cleaned and connected cable end.

Actually you want the minimum solder wicking into the wire. The solder in the wire is what makes them stiff and results in the often quoted "crimp is better than solder" that comes from the aerospace industry. The stiffened wire will work harden under vibration and break off.

When I crimp and solder I use a small metal clip around the crimp to pull heat away as I apply heat to only the open end of the barrel connectors. You can solder large battery terminals but generally there is no need. The maine concern is connections between the battery to R/R. With a single point ground or independent ground wire from battery to the R/R then the positive side is the main one to watch out for. Use something like Deoxit will minimize problems and reduce the need for soldering the large cables.

[Scratcher09]

What I meant by bad connection was that either the terminal was too small, was not flat or was not tight. Any of these would result in too much current going through too small a cross section resulting in enough heat to melt the post.
Make sure the starter motor cover is not contacting the starter motor supply terminal. At some stage in the past my starter motor must have been installed with the terminal post at 12 o'clock as it burned a hole clean through the cover. The excess draw in this case would probably cause trouble for even the best made connections.
P.S. Same goes for the terminals on the relay posts. It's easy for the one on the left to drift into the battery box when tightening. Most manuals specify a minimum clearance angle.

Last week the bike shut off at a stop light. All electrics were suddenly lost. The negative battery cable had disconnected. Appearantly I had not properly tightened it. I hand tighten it and went on my way, and then tightened it with a wrench when I got home. Because of the position of the battery, I did not notice the melted damage at the time. Sounds like this may have been the cause.

[Brendan W]

It would be a bit too much of a co-incidence if that weren't the cause. Still, best keep eyes and ears open just in case. Nothing as bad as the bite in the ass a smug problem solver gets.
Frame up rebuilds. Seems to be an unwritten law of nature that things unscrew just after. Probably a combination of coatings being where they shouldn't and fasteners tightened out of sequence or just plain old forgotten. Would be worth doing a nose to tail check of all the 'jesus bolts' after your first few hundred mile shakedown.

[trippivot]

I agree that a solder joint connection makes a brittle area - but oxidation does not go where pure solder is. so it is a push in this circumstance- I root for more solder in the 4ga wire at both sides of the battery - over a crimp. a 16ga would break more easily at the joint -- under the shrink tube- (I know)

the melted lead battery terminal -- had to have came from the starter motor. The massive draw itself is the largest amperage transference on your motorcycle and it needs the largest diameter wires to be solidly connected-- or you have a arc welder . I am surprised you did not mention any white char or carbon from a spark at the terminal. that makes me curious ..and not at ease Me? I would remove the starter motor and check the brushes and armature- go thru the 4ga connections at the solenoid battery starter - all the big wires clean and tight-- if it took a blackout to get you to notice a loose connection you might still have starter trouble. drawing too much amperage is a direct short and will cause more damage.


The type of heat to melt lead ?? -- heat in your charging system mainly is in the stator during induction of AC current.. After that , the R&R (2nd hottest) body gets hot but does not transfer it to the battery. the current might peak at 7 positive DC ampres after starting and go down to 1 or 2 as you ride. it's little ground gets hot if corroded not the battery.. and hurts the stator..

but when you hit the starter button a healthy starter motor will take 65~80 ampres all at once to turn over your engine -- that makes heat in a healthy system -- (feel the starter motor after holding the starter) -- a going bad starter motor (semi failing) can try to take over 100 DCA and still start your bike. Now** a really BAD starter is when the armature gets in a bind or the brushes fracture it will directly short your little 14ah battery to a total of over 200 CCA's when activated .... zzzap. I know how things melt all too well.

[Scratcher09]

There was no residue (black or white) on the terminal. It was just a pictured. Also, I had recently rebuilt my starter, but I will check it out anyway. I also had cleaned every connector on the harness before I reinstalled all the electrics and I inspected all the larger diameter cables as I know they are critical. I should have been more meticulous about scraping the coatings on the frame at the grounding points--lesson learned.

[posplayr]

I agree that a solder joint connection makes a brittle area - but oxidation does not go where pure solder is. so it is a push in this circumstance- I root for more solder in the 4ga wire at both sides of the battery - over a crimp. a 16ga would break more easily at the joint -- under the shrink tube- (I know)

the melted lead battery terminal -- had to have came from the starter motor.

I don't think this is a crimp v.s. solder issue. It is an issue of amount of solder being used. It really doesn't matter how much corrosion is on the outside of a wire as long as the current is flowing through the solid copper stands. So the only place that corrosion matters is at the crimp so that the current can go through the end terminal and through the outer oxidized surface of the strands. But once it is through it is in and any oxidation under the insulation for example has no effect (unless there are breaks in the strands somewhere). So the small amount of solder is only there to protect the oxidation between the crimp and the strands and to keep the oxidation out from there.

Further if you heat up the wire enough to wick the solder way un into the insulation, you will likely melt the insulation as well. So the heat sink clip on the crimp does well to avoid melting the insulation as you tin the end of the wires to the terminal end.

As far as the melted terminal, I agree with your assessment. The starter is probably shorted and drawing way more current than it should. That coupled with a poor correction at the battery terminal is about all I can figure would be getting hot enough to melt that battery terminal. It is certainly not the charging currents not a grounding issue.