Dyna VS Points

[Guest]

So maybe I haven't found the proper way to use the search function but I cannot seem to find any discussions or comparisons between factory points and an aftermarket electronic ignition, likely a Dyna S or 2000. So here goes

I have a 78 GS750 that runs very well but a previous owner replaced the wires in what looks like the original coils and I have always expected that to be the weak point of my ignition system. I got to thinking that if I wanted to replace the coils maybe I should go with an electronic ignition and have the whole Dyna setup on my bike. I don't particularly mind checking/setting the points at every oil change but my main concern is longevity. I like the old school and would probably carry a spare set of points with me anyway but, What is the life expectancy of the Dyna components including coils? I recently took my bike for a road trip and got low 50's mpg on some of my best legs but am always looking for more. So how does the Dyna do vs points as far as MPG, idle quality and any power increase?

While we're at it, is there any performance/economic benefit to running the spark plug caps sans resistors? I have had some old hot rodders tell me the resistors do nothing but reduce voltage to the plugs. Any affect on a cell phone or bluetooth comms without them?

[Downs]

I swapped in a Dayna ignition years ago and went to dyna coils recently. Can't really say the coils did much. The ignition made a huge difference but to be fair that's probably due to a worn or dirty points that were in there. Instead of struggling to get it to start it went to a very short press of the starter button and an instantaneous start. Idle smoothed out quite a bit. My MPG on my 1000 sucks compared to what some are reporting. I get high 30s (35-39 depending on how heavy I am with my right wrist), while others I guess get far more than that. I'm sure my carbs need to be tweaked some more.

[wymple]

I like points on some older bikes, like the 650 Yamaha, because the alternatives are mostly unreliable and basically cost a fortune. On our GS bikes I'll take the Dyna every day. No contest. Fiddle free and as reliable as a stone bridge.

[Guest]

The ignition made a huge difference but to be fair that's probably due to a worn or dirty points that were in there. Instead of struggling to get it to start it went to a very short press of the starter button and an instantaneous start. Idle smoothed out quite a bit. My MPG on my 1000 sucks compared to what some are reporting. I get high 30s (35-39 depending on how heavy I am with my right wrist), while others I guess get far more than that. I'm sure my carbs need to be tweaked some more.

Unfortunately I fear I may not find the answers I'm looking for because of this. Everyone that swaps from points does so because their bike is running poorly. I guess in theory there should be no difference between a properly tuned set of points and the dyna. Also thought I'd point out that your MPG's don't sound too off. Typically I see low 40's riding my bike normally, and even down to low 30's and occasionally even 20's if I ride it hard. I didn't see the number 50 until I rode on the highway at 65 mph for 80 miles and topped it back off. I also have found that letting my bike sit even a week between rides decreases my average mileage. My theory is the fuel evaporating out of the bowls/tank. If I ride it every day I average higher

[Big T]

My Dyna S is 35 years old and still going strong.
Points are an archaic system.

Not sure if it raised the mph, but the bike starts and runs better

[sharpy]

Its just a basic upgrade to any bike.
Features
Improved noise margin - The Pro Series Crank Trigger provides a stronger pickup signal with more distinct high and low voltage levels for improved triggering of the 4000 in harsh environments.
Total immunity to engine grounding problems - The Pro Series Crank Trigger is electrically isolated from the engine case (unlike it's predecessor, the Dyna S), giving total immunity to electronic problems associated with inadequate engine grounding.
Shorter Module Height - The Pro Series Crank Trigger modules are 1/2" tall (Dyna S is 3/4" tall) allowing them to fit under GSXR ignition covers without modification
Lighter weight
Lower cost
Try and get the new version, Blue anodizing compared to silver backing plate.... https://dynacart.dynojet.com/c-83-dy...k-trigger.aspx

[Fjbj40]

If you are doing 50+ MPG then that is about the best you can ask for!

If you want a consistently better start, smoother idle, stronger pulling bike then the complete Dyna set up is the way to go, with ZERO maintenance compared to points!

If you are running original equipment coils they are probably weak compared to the Dyna coils. Points are fine, but after a 1000 miles they have changed from the adjustment you did at the oil change.

Resistors do not reduce voltage. They are there to prevent capacitive discharge of the spark plug. They absorb the stray voltage in the wires and prevent the plugs from firing at any other time other than when they are supposed to. The old hot Rodgers are misinformed or do not understand the theory behind resistors in this application.

Personally, I chuck points and stock coils on every bike I get, always very old bikes, and the difference is felt immediately. However, it is a $$ to do the swap. So if you can afford it, do it, if you can't then the stock stuff will also work just fine. But don't think you are going to get better MPG than what you are currently getting.

[wymple]

"Personally, I chuck points and stock coils on every bike I get, always very old bikes, and the difference is felt immediately. However, it is a $$ to do the swap. So if you can afford it, do it, if you can't then the stock stuff will also work just fine. But don't think you are going to get better MPG than what you are currently getting."

I pretty much agree, as I have Dyna on both my old Moto Guzzis, my GS850, had it for a decade on my GS1100 then sold that. Dyna does not make anything for the popular XS-TX 650 Yamahas, and I've found the available stuff a PITA. Several hundred dollars, unreliable, easy to burn up. A complete points tune on those bikes costs about 25 bucks, can be carried as a spare easily, and works well for a good 20K before I have to think about it. Plus, you could change if necessary in the middle of the night in a Wal-Mart parking lot 400 miles from home easily. I have aquired an early Goldwing with points and it starts & runs so good I'm not sure I want to spend the money for any minimal upgrade on that bike. So, half my current stable will be points, and I'm a big Dyna fan. Go figure.

[Guest]

Besides the reliability factor (set it and forget it) the Dyna coils are much hotter than stock so that is where you will really feel the difference in idle and response. It is more efficient but you will probably burn that up in adjusted rider response to a peppier motorcycle.

[roeme]

I've recently acquired an ignition scope. If someone is willing to lend me a Dyna, I will scope out a point ignition vs. dyna.

So, cold hard measurements vs. hearsay/wishful thinking.

While the reliability/longetivity difference is quite obvious, I'm very sceptic towards any performance improvement over a stock points ignition in good working order.
My understanding of the principle of operation doesn't support it - there are no fundamental changes.

Both of my bikes wake up on first kick, and within a second of hitting the starter - and they have seen 30k km and 80k km, respectively (age of points unknown).

[Guest]

Dyna vs Points, no brainer, Dyna all day long on these older GSes period. Stop trying to over think it. Update your system.

[bwringer]

Yep, the lifetime of a Dyna setup is is indefinite, and they don't go out of adjustment.

I can recall only one incidence of a Dyna failure -- it was a new Dyna setup where one side would stop working when it got warm (the bike would run fine on a cool day with the ignition cover removed). Dyna exchanged the defective unit without hesitation, and as far as I know that bike is still out there somewhere running fine.

Diagnosing that one was a real booger -- when we tested for spark, the module would cool down and start working. We finally caught it by setting up a timing light on a tank bag, then riding along a remote road until failure.

[Chuck78]

I would argue that the lifetime of a Dyna-S is very finite if your charging system and wiring harness are still stock and have not been cleaned/updated/revised... I have a PILE of fried Dyna S modules to prove it! One was fried due to someone leaving the ignition key on for an extended period with the engine not running - this is VERY BAD for a Dyna S! You can see it got hot and fried itself internally.
The other thing is, Dynatek will tell you immediately that if you are not getting at least 11.4 volts delivered to your ignition system directly at the ignition components, they will be very strained and prone to failure. With your bike running, test the voltage on the orange wire that delivers voltage to your ignition coils, and also whatever source you have used to deliver switched power to your Dyna-S red wire. It is very common to see at least a 2 volt drop between charging system output and battery running voltage, versus all the way at the other end of 7 feet of wiring, many electrical crimps and connector pins, riveted terminals on the switches, ignition switch and kill switch connections and contacts... That is a lot of places for all brands of vintage bikes to suffer voltage drops across the connections...
This is why I NEVER recommend installing a Dyna-S without doing the modification of adding an ignition coil relay to ANY make of vintage bike. Use the wire formerly powering the coils to now just switch the electromagnetic coil on in a standard 12 volt normally open automotive relay. Then take fused power directly off of the battery/charging system output, and into the relay Common terminal, then feed the NO position on the relay direct to the orange wire going straight into the coils and tapping your Dyna-S power off of it as well. You also need to add a new ground wire to the other side of the relay electromagnetic switching coil.

This is a great mod to do even to a points bike, as your coils will receive a few volts more NONSTOP and result in a better idle in particular, as well as a stronger spark all across the spectrum, as your voltage drop will be minuscule now compared to the original wiring layout and it's age.

that being said, I always upgrade to Dyna-S and coils. The stock coils cannot readily have the plug wires replaced, which is a major fault. I wondered if the engineers had something in mind there - perhaps they thought that it would be time for new coils by the time the wires needed replaced? I doubt they would have had the modern mindset of "Ha, we'll make more money selling parts this way and have less parts to inventory!" as their only reasoning.

The Dyna 2000 sounds great as well but probably overkill for the average GS rider. I have also been looking at the C5 programmable optical ignition systems, but wow are they pricey... between $400 and $500, including coils. Available for all GS models including twins. I may get the twin system for my GS425, as they offer a single fire setup, no wasted spark, so it could be argued that you get a stronger spark at high rpm's because the coils have more time to charge up, It also makes a much easier argument that with a series regulator rectifier like the SH775, that the single fire setup consumes less power than a standard dual fire setup, and hence your stator will run even cooler, having even more affect on a lower engine oil temperature.