Left Carb leaking :(

[jbs80106]

Fuel in my air box too!

All was fine, pulled the carbs to the side to get to my starter. Put it all back together and rode for about 10 miles yesterday. Was going to ride to work but wanted to oil my air filter this evening...pulled off the cover and the filter was wet.

I'll look back thru the posts but how can you tell where the gas is coming from (i.e. which carb?).

Then, I'll read back thru to see what my options are.....what happens if you don't fix it right away? Can it fix itself?

Thanks....

[Norseman]

Sound advice, Keith

Well, here's my reasoning;

1. My son will be riding this GS650L (I'm getting a another GS for myself),
2. The bike only has 24K miles on it and I intend to keep it to the wheels fall off,
3. I believe when it comes to carburetors, quality matters a whole lot,
4. I have worked in the automotive industry for more years than I care to admit (GM Quality Engineering) and OEM's place far greater standards on parts manufacturers than aftermarket suppliers, and
5. Keith, I have been reading your posts and advice for quite awhile, and I recognize exceptional knowledge when I see it and I tend to take it to heart

So, there's my rational for spending a few more dollars on factory parts than perhaps I have, strictly speaking.

Also, I do believe I have additional seal/gasket failures as I had gas in places it shouldn't be found. I think the carbs just needs to be thoroughly cleaned and all gaskets/o-rings are old and worn and need to be replaced.

I remember watching a buddy have his BSA 650 (or 600?) burst into flames with him on it because he didn't take leaking gas seriously. He got some nasty burns on his legs and the bike was toast (literally :shock: ).

So thanks to everyone on GSR for helping us amateurs through the learning curve and processes, I'd be hard-pressed to find a greater bunch of folks.

Norseman

[KEITH KRAUSE]

All was fine, pulled the carbs to the side to get to my starter. Put it all back together and rode for about 10 miles yesterday. Was going to ride to work but wanted to oil my air filter this evening...pulled off the cover and the filter was wet.

I'll look back thru the posts but how can you tell where the gas is coming from (i.e. which carb?).

Then, I'll read back thru to see what my options are.....what happens if you don't fix it right away? Can it fix itself?

Thanks....

The filter can pick up fuel from one or more of the bowl levels being too high. A high level can be because a float valve isn't sealing well or operating correctly. Float level adjustment may be off too. Even if the petcock is good, the fuel remaining in the fuel line and main passage to the carb bowls can be enough to drain past a poor sealing valve and overflow the bowl. Takes just one carb overflowing to wet the filter. This overflow happens much more often with bikes that are parked on the side stand. This changes the angle of the tubing/passages and weakens the suction the petcock has against fuel drain. The angle while on the sidestand also makes it easier for the float valve to incorrectly seal and can even effect the way the floats press against the valve spring. All I know is I've seen many bikes leak on the sidestand but not as much or not at all if parked on the centerstand.
This problem will obviously be even worse if the petcock is bad. The petcock diaphragm can fail and fuel will leak past. The diaphragm can also allow fuel to pass through the vacuum line and straight into carb #2 vacuum port (CV carbs) and then into the crank.
So you can have more trouble going on than just a wet filter. Depending on flow amount and gravity/angle of the bike parked, the overflowing fuel can enter the crankcase in large amounts. Even if the amount draining in is just from the remaining fuel in the line/passages after each parking, it can accumulate into a lot of fuel in the crank. Time to change the oil, repair the leaking and hope you caught it soon enough.

[Norseman]

Bad Petcock

Question: I have a bad petcock (I do not like the way that sounds) manifested by free-flowing fuel except when on the Res position. Not leaking, mind you, but gushing as in no restriction at all.

Should I repair the petcock, replace with a factory new one, or buy a non-vacuum aftermarket petcock? I read somewhere in a thread that there are benefits to the non-vacuum, but if used, you HAVE to make to sure to remember to turn to Off when not running. Is this correct or am I remembering wrong here?

Thanks for any advice,
Norseman

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I would buy a Pingel valve. That's my preference. You can probably get a factory valve for a little less and some factory petcocks have rebuild kits that include a new diaphragm for quite a bit less than either new valve.
Everyone has their own reasons why which of the above is the best decision.
You should turn off the non-vacuum Pingel after each ride. In theory, correctly operating float valves shouldn't allow a leak to happen if you do leave the valve on but turning off the valve is wise. To me it's easy to remember...key/valve/kickstand, to others not so easy.
I see the factory valve as a weak point. I try to replace any weak point in the bike if it makes sense.
Last I looked, the Pingel with adapter plate is around $90 shipped. Measure the two valve to tank mounting bolts, center to center, to come up with the correct mm size adapter plate. They come in either chrome or polished aluminum bodies. The bodies have several different styles/shapes. They operate nice and smooth and I think they're a quality valve. Sometimes you have to enlarge the tanks petcock hole a little to accept the Pingel. On my '79 1000E, a small rat-tailed file worked easily and you don't have to remove that much material. The Pingel filter/tower was the same length as the factory valves and my reserve quantity remained the same. Some models may require you to shorten the filter/tower a little. I haven't had to do this but others say it's easy to shorten if needed.
Just follow the instructions closely on how to install the adapter plate and correct use of their supplied plate sealant. I find that 6 wraps of teflon tape works well to allow you to rotate the Pingel valve outward just right and still be tight enough to stop any leakage.

[jbs80106]

Great Info....

The filter can pick up fuel from one or more of the bowl levels being too high. A high level can be because a float valve isn't sealing well or operating correctly. Float level adjustment may be off too. Even if the petcock is good, the fuel remaining in the fuel line and main passage to the carb bowls can be enough to drain past a poor sealing valve and overflow the bowl. Takes just one carb overflowing to wet the filter. This overflow happens much more often with bikes that are parked on the side stand.

PO only ever parked it on side stand. I was doing same until I figured out the magic pull it takes to get it on center stand.

The diaphragm can also allow fuel to pass through the vacuum line and straight into carb #2 vacuum port (CV carbs) and then into the crank. So you can have more trouble going on than just a wet filter. Depending on flow amount and gravity/angle of the bike parked, the overflowing fuel can enter the crankcase in large amounts. Even if the amount draining in is just from the remaining fuel in the line/passages after each parking, it can accumulate into a lot of fuel in the crank. Time to change the oil, repair the leaking and hope you caught it soon enough.

Sounds like Carb 2 is the culprit. I was checking out Z1 for parts. Not sure if I just need floats or o-rings or if I need the whole rebuild kit(s).

Also, what does 'caught it soon enough' imply. I know the oil needs to be changed. Once I got it running from doing the starter and oil change I did ride it for 10 miles or so around the neighborhood to check for oil leaks. Could I have done something worse than foul the spark plugs?

I do see some residue looking like the carbs were pulling in air thru the engine airbreather tube...and in turn sucking in fuel/oil combo....that was weird but I suspect maybe the fuel-soaked foam air filter wasn't letting thru enough air?

thanks!

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Sounds like Carb 2 is the culprit. I was checking out Z1 for parts. Not sure if I just need floats or o-rings or if I need the whole rebuild kit(s).

Also, what does 'caught it soon enough' imply. I know the oil needs to be changed. Once I got it running from doing the starter and oil change I did ride it for 10 miles or so around the neighborhood to check for oil leaks. Could I have done something worse than foul the spark plugs?

I do see some residue looking like the carbs were pulling in air thru the engine airbreather tube...and in turn sucking in fuel/oil combo....that was weird but I suspect maybe the fuel-soaked foam air filter wasn't letting thru enough air?

thanks!

There are a few reasons mentioned earlier how fuel can enter the filter area. Normally, you take things apart and inspect for dirt or ? that could be interfering with a good seal at the float valve. Then you look for wear on the float valve and correct float operation. Inspect the float valve's seat and the seat gasket or o-ring that seals the seat. Clean/replace as necessary. Same for the petcock.
When I said, "I hope you caught it soon enough", I meant IF there's fuel in the crank and even worse, quite a bit, then I hope it hasn't been there for long. Fuel thinning out the oil will obviously accelerate wear.
The crankcase vent tube that connects to the filter box, is just a vent. There's no vacuum. Some residue does drain into the filter box. To me, it looks like chicken broth but smells of fuel.